Veterans Affairs Committee on April 27th, 2009

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much for coming here. I think it's very important.

I'm going to raise the same basic question that Peter raised. If this were the military or the defence committee, I think those would be totally satisfactory; it's the basis of where our veterans come from. But I'd hope we could work together a bit to put a bit more of a veterans face on the final product, maybe adding a couple of items. The RCMP certainly is an appropriate one, because they're under it, and there may be room for some further discussion to make sure it does really then belong to the veterans collectively. I think that is a distinction that would be worth our while pursuing with you. I like very much what you're suggesting.

How many panels would become ridiculous?

[David Monaghan]

Well, I could count the panels in the room, and then.... But I would say--

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Then it looks like a photo collection.

[David Monaghan]

Yes, it does. You need space around something for somebody to identify with it. If it's one after another.... In fact, the comment I made earlier about the Memorial Chamber.... What's interesting about that, of course, is that every insignia is there, but they're lost, because they're just cheek by jowl, and it's only the larger ones that stand out.

And again, what's practical? If curtains are drawn, all of a sudden you're no longer represented. You need to be able to identify areas that would be regularly open and clearly identifiable. So I would say five, or maybe six, to be honest.

One of the questions that had arisen.... When I was speaking earlier with Mr. White, the federal sculptor, he asked if we would like the insignia for the Royal Canadian Legion. I said yes and no; I didn't know. So I left it out. The reason I left it out was that I was trying to think of insignia or symbols, if you will, that all veterans would identify with.

Working with the committee and getting some input from the Department of National Defence, we would probably be able to come up with a list that you feel comfortable with, because you know your business, and I'd be very happy to ensure that those groups are represented.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I'd appreciate that, because I think you're very much on the right track; I really do. I think that's the type of thing. It's just that if we had time to think about it and talk about it, there might be one that actually has wording in it. Since you mentioned the Legion, “Lest we forget” may not be the right one, but there may be something they see right off the bat that says “thank you to veterans”—that's a little corny, but something that makes it clear that it's veterans. There is a subtle distinction between the active military coming in and the veterans coming in. This has to be focused more on the veterans, which certainly encompasses these three, but there's a bit more to it that I think we want to nail down.

[David Monaghan]

That's the sort of thing we would have to verify with the history directorate at DND, because there are historical insignia that are not the same as the ones we have today, and an individual—my father or my uncles—while they would recognize the current one, would identify with an earlier version. That's the sort of thing we have to take into account.

In making this particular proposal, I'm trying to be as global as possible. I don't like to use the term “generic”, but I'd like to try to involve as many people as possible. Mr. Stoffer's comment about the RCMP was on something I wasn't aware of. I think the point is a very good one. If the committee feels there could be something done,

something that could add to the room with respect to veterans, I would be very open to that.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I appreciate that, because I think if you're this far along, you probably want a working group to sit down and talk in more detail. You don't want the whole committee. That would be the chair's call. I think before we sign it off, we make sure we haven't left something out. We go back through it, look at it, talk about it, and say we can only do so much, and ask how we can enhance it a bit to cover all the bases. I think we're probably on the same track.

[David Monaghan]

The idea of actually starting with four panels—I used the term earlier—was that if other panels have to be added or should be added, additional panels can be worked on as well.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I'll stop. I don't know if anybody else....

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Tilly?

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Monaghan and Mr. Vickers, for being here this afternoon.

My first comment, being a Miramichier, is that I was delighted to hear you say you had to bring Kevin as a symbol of authority. I thought that was a really good thing.

Secondly, I'm just wondering if we see any other changes in the room, above and beyond just the....

[David Monaghan]

Well, it is a heritage room. In terms of changes, if the committee wants more work on the room in terms of decoration or whatever, that would be the sort of thing that would have to be worked out between the Federal Heritage Buildings Review Office and design services within the House.

Did you have other things envisioned?

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

No, I didn't have anything. We're not going to look at pictures, we're just going mainly with les pièces.

[David Monaghan]

Primarily, the idea was to install the sculptures in the panels. Because this room is used in so many different ways—at times it's used as a storage room, when the House isn't sitting, and it's used for a variety of purposes—from an operational perspective, but also in the sense of permanency, I think the sculpture adds much more to the room. I think that would probably be the most appropriate approach.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Yes. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Back to the Liberal Party, if you have any more questions. No?

Bloc Québécois? No.

We have a couple more questions over on the Conservative side.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you for coming.

Just relating to the scale and size of this, as I understand it, it's one of those panels. If these panels weren't here, what would your choice be, smaller or larger than that?

[David Monaghan]

In keeping with the building, I'd probably keep them at roughly the same size. Before the proposal, I was in the room. I've been in the room with a measuring tape. I had a cut-out of one of these symbols, which I blew up and tried to fit on the panel, just to see what it would look like if it stood over there. Granted, it's white on black and it doesn't look the same, but it was just to get a sense. I wanted to feel comfortable when I spoke to the committee and could say that it was visible. I think it's done in a tasteful manner that will blend in with the room very nicely. That's why I would say the same size.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

You may or may not know and you may not be able to answer this, but would there be significant changes to the room that you're aware of in the ultimate renovation of Centre Block?

[David Monaghan]

No, not that I know of. My understanding is that much of the renovation of Centre Block will be a reinstatement. So what you will be seeing is a major renovation, not a reconstruction of the building.

In designing the building, John Pearson, the architect, had a very particular vision based on a plan. As I mentioned earlier, I believe there are 48 special rooms, starting with the two chambers and working down. This was considered to be a special committee room. Consequently, it had a higher degree of decoration than some other committee rooms, such as the ones on the third floor, which never received any. When I first started working here, I kept asking why the committee rooms on the third floor were not completed, and the answer is no, the intent was not to. The decoration in these rooms is as it was intended to be. I'd be very surprised if they'd do it. But again, I'm not privy to all the plans. I suspect it will be more of a reinstatement in the future.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

So reinstatement means trying to take it back to the original intent the architect had for each room.

When I came into this room, I immediately reacted to the curtains. I'm not so certain that they were originally intended. I think they in a way detract from the room in terms of the beauty of perhaps the panelling. Obviously, the security screening on those windows is another feature that I think was a practical feature at a point in time when there was vandalism or whatever those things were.

If there are other solutions, I wonder whether they also would be contemplated and would give us more scope to do some of the things we've talked about today. I'm just wondering if you're party to any of that planning that goes on.

[David Monaghan]

Mr. Vickers will answer that question.

[Kevin Vickers, Sergeant-at-Arms, House of Commons]

I do have my hand in a lot of what you just finished speaking about, especially with the long-term-vision plan. What everybody's discussed so far is exactly right, that the long-term-vision plan envisions everything for this building exactly the way it was meant to be.

With regard to the curtains, we certainly can take that up. I can certainly take this up with our staff who are dedicated to this, and we'll see if we can come up with something more pleasing to the eye. With regard to the metal screening on the outside, that's another area of my responsibilities with regard to security. We just went to the board today, and we're going to go back to the Board of Internal Economy next week for the conclusion of what is called the master security plan for the precinct, which is being accepted. Those types of issues are going to be addressed, that today in security there's more aesthetically pleasing stuff that is probably at least as secure or more secure than what you're facing, and it might be changed.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

I appreciate those comments, and I didn't mean to take us beyond what our mandate is here as a committee.

If we're going to do this room properly to honour veterans, the whole scope of whatever is going to happen perhaps should be considered in the mix.

[David Monaghan]

I think that was what Ms. O'Brien was getting at earlier as well.

On a note you made that you would be interested in seeing how a room can at least in part be brought back to its original intent, I just want to note that there is the Commonwealth Room. There has been, at the Speaker's request, some work done in the Commonwealth Room where there was a conscious attempt to reinstate a lot of elements that were originally intended for that room.

That project is virtually completed now, and that's a good example of how a reinstatement takes place.