Veterans Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2009

[Doug Clorey]

If I could add to that, on the mental health side, the committee may be interested in knowing we are aggressively pursuing a tele-mental-health network so we can link some of these individuals in local communities through the tele-health network that may exist there to our operational stress injury clinics.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That's pretty well it, Mr. Lobb.

Now we'll go to the Bloc Québécois

Monsieur Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Going back to the chart on page 4, could you explain that chart to me, which shows numbers of traditional veterans, survivors, modern veterans and members of the RCMP?

Are traditional members, veterans receiving a pension, or are they survivors?

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

That's what I wanted to know. Traditional veterans don't receive pensions. Do all those people receive a pension?

[Brenda MacCormack]

Everyone reflected in this chart is receiving services from Veterans Affairs. In the case of traditional veterans, it would primarily be a disability pension. In the case of modern veterans, it would be a mix of those who had received disability pensions prior to the new Veterans Charter coming into force. And disability awards would be for the balance, after the new Veterans Charter. It would also include recipients of the veterans independence program.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

If I understand correctly, all those people receive services or pensions. Is that correct?

[Brenda MacCormack]

Yes.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

Here's my second question: at what point do soldiers become veterans? That kind of question has never been asked, and it intrigues me.

[Darragh Mogan]

The accepted definition of a veteran is someone who has gone through basic training and has been honourably discharged. That's the definition of a veteran. It's for recognition purposes. It's not for benefit purposes. There are other eligibility requirements to receive benefits, such as disability awards and the new Veterans Charter. But you're a veteran if you've served Canada, went through basic training, and have been honourably discharged.

A lot of people are veterans and don't realize it. To be recognized as a veteran is extremely important in terms of a person's well-being. Many modern veterans have told us that after they left the service, they didn't feel recognized. And when you don't feel recognized for something you've put your life on the line for, it can't have a very salutary effect on your mental health or your transition to civilian life.

Your question is very important. There are lots of implications to the answer.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I have another question. The example that comes to mind is that of the lieutenant who loses a leg in Afghanistan. Has he become a veteran or is he still working for the Department of National Defence? Does he receive a veteran's disability pension? Perhaps he can work at the same time; I don't know. I want to know how all that works.

[Brenda MacCormack]

All of the case examples we've gone though here are of veterans who actually have been released from the service. But if we take the scenario of a member who's currently serving and was injured in Afghanistan, what happens is that we receive notification when this kind of injury occurs, and we have a casualty protocol and we make contact with that veteran and the family to make ourselves known to them. The charter provides capacity to pay the disability award while the member is still serving. And that is really the commencement of our relationship with that member and his family. Then we will work with them as necessary, depending on how seriously injured the member is and whether they are able to return to their job in the military, or whether they end up transitioning out of the military. So it's a very collaborative kind of effort if the member ends up transitioning out.

[Doug Clorey]

But to answer your question more directly, they are not considered veterans while they continue to be employed within the Canadian Forces. They have to be released in order to be considered veterans.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

All right.

So they receive a pension and they're still working, let's say, for the Department of National Defence, for the armed forces, and are not considered veterans, but they receive a pension.

Are they veterans or employees of the Department of National Defence? I'm not talking about their salary, but about a pension received because they have lost a leg or two.

[Doug Clorey]

The actual pension would be provided by Veterans Affairs while they continue to serve in the military, but they would not be considered a veteran until they're released.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Veterans.

[Doug Clorey]

That's correct.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Merci, Monsieur Gaudet.

We'll go over to the Conservative Party now. Mr. Clarke, for five minutes.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for coming.

I have to apologize. I had a previous meeting, so I missed part of your presentation. I do apologize.

I'm quite interested in veterans affairs. I served in the RCMP for 18 years and I retired as a sergeant.

There are a lot of RCMP veterans now who have served overseas. They serve their country. They serve in their homeland. I've seen a lot of members suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder. For the NCO, say, in charge of a detachment, the onus was on the detachment commander or an NCO to make recommendations to the appropriate health services to look at possible symptoms if a member was dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder.

Now, I'm just curious. In regard to the Department of Veterans Affairs and its policy, when did the RCMP become included in the mandate for post-traumatic stress disorder, or just basically added to Veterans Affairs?

[Darragh Mogan]

The Royal Canadian Mounted Police have been clients of Veterans Affairs since 1949, so it's a longstanding relationship.

With respect to the specific issue of mental health challenges among the RCMP, they're beginning to realize that it's an important factor, and you as a former police officer would know just how traumatic some of the events are that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police constables have to deal with, whether they're overseas or here, but particularly overseas. They want to be part of our mental health strategy so they can get help from our operational stress injury clinics, and they're increasingly using our OSISS peer support coordination function for helping individuals cope on a day-to-day basis for people who have gone through that kind of traumatic event. It's a peer-based mental health non-clinical, non-therapeutic type of support. The RCMP are engaged in both the OSI clinics and in the peer support network we've developed.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

You mentioned the clinics. The RCMP have access to the full gamut of services provided by Veterans Affairs. Where are these clinics?

[Doug Clorey]

We have ten clinics that actually complement the five DND operational trauma and stress support centres. So there are essentially 15 points of service between Veterans Affairs and the Department of National Defence. Going from west to east, there is one in each of Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Winnipeg, London, Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec City, and Fredericton, and there's actually a residential program out of Ste. Anne's Centre in Montreal that will complement the tenth clinic. So those are our locations.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

How long is the program at the residential clinic you just mentioned there, for the rehabilitation or the mechanisms to deal with the everyday stress of post-traumatic stress? Is there a duration?

[Doug Clorey]

All of our operational stress injury clinics, with the exception of the one that will offer a residential program, are out-patient services. Clients simply come in and receive services and leave. The residential treatment program will be a program of eight weeks' duration, and it will also include participation of family members as well, so it's a fairly significant initiative on the part of the department. It will be operated out of Ste. Anne's Hospital.