Veterans Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2009

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Herbert, for 2008-2009, we are discussing support for homeless veterans. I would like to know whether any funds have been allocated to this purpose for 2009-2010.

[Keith Hillier]

When you refer to homeless veterans, I think that you are referring to the English term

“the homeless”.

There is no special program, there's no special fund. All of our programs are open to all veterans, homeless or not, and there is no money specifically earmarked to deal with a homeless program.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Do you know how many veterans there are in Quebec?

[Keith Hillier]

I'm just trying to remember what the number would be. I'm talking about clients, so of the 225,000, it would probably be around 40,000 in Quebec. That would be a ballpark number.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I would like you to send me that information.

[Keith Hillier]

Yes, we can give you the exact number.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

All right.

Quebec and Ontario have about the same surface area. There are perhaps 100,000 veterans in Ontario. However, I see that with regard to Quebec, you only contacted l'Accueil Bonneau in Montreal. Quebec is so large that there cannot only be one such organization. As in the other provinces, there are homeless veterans. There must be homeless veterans in many places.

Do you intend to meet other organizations so as to offer to Quebec veterans the same services that are offered in the other provinces?

[Keith Hillier]

We have set up a call centre in Montreal to offer services to Quebec residents as well as to francophones in all the regions of Canada. With regard to general services, we have a district office in Montreal and another one in Sainte-Foy. Moreover, we have employees on the Valcartier base, and we are setting up a new office near the Saint-Jean base. I think that in general, the level of service for Quebec residents is the same as for Ontario residents.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Herbert, the bill that was tabled yesterday in the House of Commons, I believe, includes a project worth $240 million over four years. I do not know if you are aware of it. It is a program meant for persons from other countries who have been living in Canada for 10 years.

Do you think that this will take away from the programs that are currently available to veterans?

[Darragh Mogan, Director General, Policy and Programs Division, Department of Veterans Affairs]

I'll reply in English, to be clear.

The $219 million that has been set aside for the allied veterans is not taking away anything in the way of resources for other veterans who are already eligible, or even those who might be in the future. It's a new allotment of new money. There's no trade-off that I'm aware of in the financing of this new proposal.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I will put my other question to Mr. Herbert and I hope that he will be the one who answers it.

Regarding the mission of Veterans Affairs Canada, it is written that it is “to keep the memory of their achievements and sacrifices alive for all Canadians”.

We have Remembrance Day on November 11^th, there is also D-Day, and from time to time, we travel to Vimy in April. But apart from this, what are you doing to keep memories alive?

In my riding, the only ceremonies to take place in a year are those of November 11. That is right. We have the Legion, and veterans are received by the Legion. However, it seems to me that when I was young, there were more commemorations and ceremonies. Sometimes, when I travelled to Europe—I think that you have been there also—it seems to me that the French whom I met, as well as the Belgians, had a different attitude than we do with regard to memorials and ceremonies.

[Keith Hillier]

The question was put to me.

I'd like to respond in a couple of ways.

First of all, you made note of the various ceremonies around November 11, and of course, like the ones here in the national capital region, it's actually organized by the Royal Canadian Legion. It is their event.

As we look at moving forward, we are doing a number of things around youth outreach. We work with schools across the country and we send material to about 16,000 schools from coast to coast in the country, materials for the teachers to use. We've certainly been investing in the Web technology in order to reach out to modern-day people. Also, we have people in Europe this weekend in terms of Normandy, for the sixty-fifth anniversary of Normandy. Also, of course there will be a ceremony, Mr. Chair, at the National War Memorial this Saturday, which will be commemorating the sixty-fifth anniversary of Normandy.

In addition to that, what we are doing, as is noted there in our report, is trying to change our approach a little bit, so rather than bringing Canadians to commemoration, our focus is to bring commemoration to Canadians. Essentially, some of the things we're doing involve looking at the new media. I can tell you that if you were to go on YouTube today, you will see the vignette of the sixty-fifth anniversary that we put together. Also, last year, for the first time in the history of the department, for Veterans' Week the vignette was again posted to YouTube, and we're looking at other issues around social media.

One of our key goals is to try to get greater engagement of youth, and greater awareness of youth, in commemoration, and we feel that one of the tools to do this, when you look at how youth communicate today, is to get out there into those media.

We are also looking at various opportunities for partnership with both the private and public sectors in terms of trying to get that sector more engaged. I'll use an example. A case in point is that last year we were able to have a partnership with the Canadian Football League. For those of you who may have seen the final games, you will have noticed that all the players had Canada Remembers logos on their helmets, and the Canada Remembers logos were on the field. We also had a remembrance service before the start of each game. In fact, there were remembrance services, and poppies, and Canada Remembers pins were given to all participants.

Also, because the Grey Cup game was in Montreal, the commissioner of the CFL and the players from the teams actually took the Grey Cup to L'Hôpital Sainte-Anne and went into the hospital and went out onto the floors and into the wards and talked to the veterans and brought the cup in there.

So we're trying to be very active. Compared to when we were young, we're looking at very different youth today, and so we're really trying to do more with the electronic media, not to take away from the ceremonies that we have in Canada and abroad, which are very important. And I don't have a list with me, but I understand this weekend there will be about 34 different ceremonies, that I'm aware of, in Canadian cities across the country with respect to the sixty-fifth anniversary.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Hillier.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I have just one brief supplementary question.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Gaudet, that's nine minutes, and we're really limited here.

Mr. Julian, I know that you're generally a quick study, but you just got here. Do you want to take your five minutes now, or do you want to go to the Conservatives and then back to you so you can prepare?

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

I'm prepared. I may be asking a question that has already been asked.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

For five minutes, go ahead. You can ask any question you like, sir.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I apologize. We've been handing off the baton today. Our regular Veterans Affairs critic, Peter Stoffer, is not available.

What interests me when I look at the strategic outcomes is this. I can perhaps understand that veterans' compensation and financial support is less through 2011-12 than it is in 2009-10 because of the unfortunate loss of many of our veterans, but what I don't understand is that we see a reduction in veterans' health care costs as well. There is strategic outcome number one. In real terms, even for Canada Remembers, essentially there is a loss of expenditure ability or expenses on those programs over the three-year period. The Veterans Review and Appeal Board, also in real terms...because if we have a fixed amount, of course, over three years inflation erodes that same amount. For the Office of the Veterans Ombudsman there is also an erosion in real terms, and then for the Internal Services as well we see a reduction both in absolute and in real terms.

So I see the five strategic outcomes, and in every single case there are fewer funds available two years from now than in fiscal year 2009-10. That's a matter of some concern. Obviously Canadians support our veterans. We're concerned about services to our veterans, and yet there's a cutback in every sector.

Is that something you've already explained, and could you explain it to me?

[Ron Herbert]

No, it's not something we explained to this point.

Programs that are direct benefits to clients are indexed every year at 3%. So the numbers you see here, although they may look as if they've flatlined--for instance, health care and the re-establishments--have been indexed, and if it weren't for that indexing, they would be lower. And they would be lower because of the decline in the veteran population.

So the number of veterans is going down. We're losing roughly 20,000 veterans per year of the World War II and Korean War veterans. So we're losing them at a very fast pace, but because the numbers had been indexed, the program costs are indexed, the actual expenditures are staying relatively constant.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Can I just do a supplementary on that particular question, for veterans' health care?

Are expanded services available? If we are losing, tragically, that number of veterans every year, there is still a reduction in the overall budget, but does that mean that those funds are being transferred to provide additional health care services?

[Ron Herbert]

In many cases, yes, because of the veterans' age, the demands for services are much greater, and if veterans present with a health care need and are eligible based on the program, they will get those services. As we know, in the last two years of life, the costs of health care are exponentially higher than they are in the earlier years.

So absolutely, more services are being provided for these older veterans in their later years.

[Darragh Mogan]

I may add, Ron, that these are statutory programs, so if the demand goes down...but if the demand goes up, it is met. So that's one thing to bear in mind.

The other is that if in any one period of time the money allocated to veterans' programs or corrections or whatever isn't used, it goes back into the general revenue and it's not, at least technically, available to be reused unless cabinet decides that's what should happen. The advantage of a statutory program is that if the demand were to go down like this and then go back up, there's a guarantee the resources will go up with the increased demand.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Can you run through the other strategic outcome budgetary allotments, please?

[Ron Herbert]

For the others, the amounts are not indexed to inflation, and that is the way all government programming is done. There may be some erosion, but in most cases, we're fairly nimble on our feet and are able to continue to provide the same level of service by doing things a little differently, a little more smartly. The remembrance programming, I would say, has year over year probably been one of the prides of the department in terms of what we've been able to do with the funds we've had.

So we work smarter, but we're not getting any additional money. You're correct.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

The moneys will be less.