Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 20th, 2009

[Brian Ferguson]

Perhaps Darragh will mention the composition of the special needs advisory group.

[Darragh Mogan]

It comprises seven Canadian Forces veterans, all of whom have reported disabilities of over 80%, and they may be physical, psychological, or both. They have a lot of experience dealing with Veterans Affairs and disability. None of them are particularly shy about letting their views be known. They have released four reports to us that are very insightful and helpful. As a result of a lot of the reports we get from them, we adjust how we operate within our current authority to be a lot more sensitive to the kinds of things they need.

The new Veterans Charter advisory group is made up of practitioners, academics in the areas of disability management and psychiatry, veterans organizations, and practitioners in physical and psychological injuries.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Have you noticed a significant difference in your feedback from newer veterans compared to Second World War and Korean War veterans?

[Brian Ferguson]

Yes, there's a different culture among the newer veterans. They are quite demanding in the information they need from us. I guess the Internet is pervasive and everybody is used to getting lots of information, so it's changing. We're exploring ways to better meet those needs through proper and upgraded technologies.

I will make a comment, but we basically have to verify these numbers. The perception we have at the moment is that we're getting fewer client complaints around charter issues than we used to get around the old pension issues. Most of the negative comments about departmental performance still have to do with the pension process, but not very many are surfacing around charter issues.

I want to verify that so I'm not misleading the committee, but that's our perception at the moment around the charter.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I have two military bases in my riding, and from my conversations with current and recent veterans, a lot of them go to blogs and websites for their information. They don't seem to have an organization they identify with to deal directly with Veterans Affairs.

Is that a fair assessment? If so, are we moving toward trying to identify an organization that these CF members feel comfortable going to and working through?

[Brian Ferguson]

There are currently six veterans organizations that interact regularly with us. Three of them were founded around the traditional veterans' cause. Three additional ones have been founded around support to CF veterans.

I can't comment on how veterans feel about those organizations. They exist to serve them, and I think that comment would be of extreme interest to them.

On the point about blogs, you're quite correct about keeping track of blogs. I read somewhere that there may be 133 million blogs out there today. We're really looking at whether we should have one so that people can access it a bit more. We're considering that issue as a sort of technological outreach.

We don't create veterans organizations in the department; we work with them.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I think it's a fair point in seeing how the department can better reach out to some of these newer veterans.

In my last minute I want to talk a little bit about PTSD and the problems some of our veterans are having five, six, or seven years later. They're into their new careers and finally being diagnosed with PTSD.

What kinds of support systems do we have in place, and how effective have they been in supporting these members who are now out of DND and solely reliant upon Veterans Affairs? I know we have the ombudsman who does good work, but what kinds of support systems have we set up? Are we looking at improving them and disseminating that information to these gentlemen?

[Brian Ferguson]

Thank you for that question, because it's such an important issue for us. So many individuals who are injured are injured with operational stress injuries, and those don't go away overnight. Basically what we have in place.... I won't talk about DND's process; they have excellent services while they are in service.

When they arrive at our door, we have both a clinical and a non-clinical support system. One is in partnership with DND, which is called the operational social support network or the peer support group, OSISS. I don't know if your committee has been briefed on that recently. That peer support network was founded by DND, but about 70-plus percent of the people who go to that network for peer support assistance are veterans. It caught on in a very major way with veterans.

That peer support group counsels individuals, and the peers who run these support groups are people who suffer from operational stress injuries. Our Sainte-Anne's hospital provides the clinical support to that peer network so that individuals don't get overburdened while suffering from an OSI and helping others who are suffering from OSIs. That group is used as a means to listen and assess problems that have arisen among the people who go to the groups, and they are referred to our services when the individuals are ready for them.

On the clinical side, we have established ten operational stress injury clinics, where clinicians, in a team setting, work with veterans who are diagnosed through those clinics and a treatment plan is established for them. Through our case managers in the department, the treatment plan is monitored, with continuous feedback on the treatment plan and the case, in an attempt to stay on top of the issue.

This differs quite dramatically from the way the department dealt with cases like this in the past.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

If I can just make one last quick comment, that is great, and these operational stress clinics are doing an excellent job, but these men and women often have to interrupt a current career, so they need easier access to the financial rewards so they can do it without burdening their families at the same time.

[Brian Ferguson]

That's a very good point, sir, and Darragh may want to talk a bit about this.

We offer psycho-social, medical, and vocational rehab as part of the Veterans Charter. We don't force anyone into vocational rehab if they're not ready for it. If the diagnosis is that they have a psychological trauma they have to overcome, they're into treatment for that, and while they're in that rehab, the earnings loss payments kick in. If they're in the psycho-social rehab, they're covered, and if they need medical rehab and/or vocational rehab, they're still covered.

The program is set up as a safety net for that type of experience.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Ferguson and Mr. Storseth.

Now over to the Liberal Party, for five minutes. Madam Sgro.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Thank you very much.

It's great to have you back and to get an update on the new Veterans Charter. I congratulate you on the work you've done so far, but as always, everything is a work in progress. Certainly the committee is interested in seeing how we can assist you in moving the issues forward.

I have a couple of questions on the lump sum disability award. Once individuals receive that, what other assistance are they entitled to? Do they get their cheque, walk away to start a new life, and that's the end of their contact with you?

[Brian Ferguson]

There's quite a lot of additional assistance, if required. In a sense the charter has moved to a model of independence. It is an attempt to have people transition from military life and become independent contributing citizens of Canada not requiring support in the future to actually achieve that.

In that regard, the lump sum is paid as a recognition of pain and suffering. The other programs that come into effect immediately, or even before a lump sum, because you don't have to have a lump sum payment to access them, are meant to assist in that independence, getting back to civilian life. If they need rehabilitation, psycho-social, medical, and/or vocational, they get 74% of their earnings until they're finished that program. If they can't come off that program because they're totally incapacitated, that payment index stays until they're 65. If it's someone who was killed in service, the spouse is entitled to that payment. That's another payment that's available.

If someone is severely injured, there's also a permanent incapacity allowance. That's a regular payment that's paid in recognition that some of these individuals are going to have intermittent work. In other words, they might find a job, they're off our books, but they run into a problem later and they have to go back. So there's a permanent incapacity allowance that's paid for the most severely injured.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

I cannot imagine any man or woman coming back from an experience in Afghanistan, no matter what they want to think at the time, who does not need some ongoing psychological assistance for what they have seen and gone through. So if they come back and receive some sort of a lump sum payment and think they're going to be able to renew their career and go on to doing something else, how are you tracking any of them? Or are you tracking? I recognize the Privacy Act, and all these other issues, but someone comes back, especially, I think, our soldiers who feel they've just been through so much, but they're just fine, and it's only two or three years later, through domestic violence or something, that they surface. Does anyone have any kind of a system tracking any of the former members?

[Brian Ferguson]

Yes.

Darragh, I guess you'd like to take a....

[Darragh Mogan]

Yes. You've raised a really important point. As was mentioned earlier, not all the psychological illnesses conveniently arrive at our door when individuals leave the military, or even when they get back. They're late onset. Sometimes situations arise that no one can control.

So the one thing about the new Veterans Charter, you may not get a lump sum at all, you may not need it, but it's like medicare: it's always there if it's needed. And if you need it more than once, twice, three, four, five, how many times you need it in your life, it's always there. It's a statutory guarantee.

Every person leaving the military gets a transition interview. And I think we've got to the level of sophistication now that we can see the early warning signs that we may need to follow up on an individual, and we do.

These are well-trained, capable individuals coming back, and they're great assets to Canada when they leave. We've got to be careful we don't overdo it. But if we see an early warning system, if it's a family problem, if we see that somebody is showing signs of a potential problem that we've seen before, we'll follow up with that individual after they leave. And it will be based on the transition interview or an indication from the base surgeon when they leave. But we have to respect their privacy, and we do. We go to great lengths to do that.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

What kind of assistance is offered to the widow or widower?

[Darragh Mogan]

When the soldier has died in service or as a result of service, the assisting officer from National Defence would be the first one there, as you would expect. But the individual, when they're ready.... And you don't want to rush on the bereavement process, but they need to know they will have 75%. Under the new Veterans Charter they'll have all the benefits the veteran would have had had the veteran survived, including the capacity to go back into a rehab program if she or he needs it, whenever they need it. There will be child care support when they're in that program. There's quite a comprehensive list of things they will get as a survivor of a veteran killed in action or whose disabilities caused their demise.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

And what about the children?

[Darragh Mogan]

The children can get counselling and support through the health services provision under the Public Service Health Care Plan, and that's available to the survivors as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Mogan, Madam Sgro.

And now on to Mr. Mayes, for five minutes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be sharing my time with Mr. Lobb.

I know the charter provides support for the families of veterans. If the Canadian Forces personnel is killed in action and his family is provided for, I was wondering if there's any provision for some of the costs that would be incurred by the family in post-secondary education, for instance. Is that part of a death benefit?

[Brian Ferguson]

It is.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Could you explain that to me?

[Darragh Mogan]

If the parent has greater than a 50% disability, and certainly death in service is greater than that, then the Education Assistance Act falls in place for the children, which provides for tuition, I think it's up to $4,000 or $5,000 now, and a monthly stipend while they're in school, up to age 25. And beyond 25, if it's a natural course of continuing education, such as a master's degree in engineering, there's something to manage it.