Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 11th, 2009

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Clarke.

There are still two minutes left, so if you don't mind, Mr. Stoffer, I'll just take a question and then the rotation will go to you.

I walk by the National War Memorial often, and my concern is the amount of security at the memorial. We've had a couple of incidents. Is your department in charge of security at that location?

[Suzanne Tining]

For events that are being held at the National War Memorial site, it's a shared responsibility between the National Capital Commission, us, and, on November 11, the Royal Canadian Legion.

As far as security goes, my understanding is that we are consulted, but it's the National Capital Commission's responsibility.

[Keith Hillier]

I could add to that. I don't have it in front of me, but there are some security measures that may not be actually obvious to people when they pass by. For example, there are video cameras on the site that are being monitored, so that if inappropriate behaviour is seen at the site, police can be called immediately. Also there are other informal patrols by security or what have you. No, you don't see the presence on the site, but there are actually video cameras running.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I could suggest something. I think it's done with total innocence due to ignorance, but I see the tomb of the unknown soldier casually sat upon. I think a tasteful sign at that location to really explain to people who are not aware of the dimensions of that memorial—that it's an actual tomb—might be a consideration in some review for that. It's troubling, and yet, as I said, I think for the most part people do it innocently, but it's also a place of dignity and respect and memorial. I think we owe it to the veterans that we take some kind of vigilance around there.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Regarding Madam O'Neill-Gordon's question on the VIP, again, you're right, if the veteran did not have VIP—and correct me if I'm wrong—and then he dies and she wishes to apply for it, she has to have a low income or a disability tax credit. If she doesn't have those, she doesn't qualify.

But if a veteran had VIP and he dies or she dies, the spouse gets VIP. She doesn't have to have a disability tax credit or a low income. She automatically receives it. What's happened is that they've developed a two-tier widow, even though the promise was made that all widows would receive it. This is the difficulty I have, and this is where the minister and I split hairs many times. That's not what was promised. The promise to Joyce Carter was that all widows would receive it upon the death of the veteran. There was no classification. There were no check marks. There was no disability taxing. I have widows who were told by DVA to see their doctor, obtain a disability form, and go back to CRA. If you can get a disability tax credit from CRA, then you can apply for VIP. What 85-year-old widow has the time to do all of that? That's the frustration I have. That's my statement.

Before my question, I want to give very good praise to I think two of the greatest DVA employees you have, and they are Paul Brown and Wendy Shea in Halifax. They have me on their back all the time, and they do a tremendous job. They and the staff hidden away in a Halifax shopping centre are unbelievable. Even though I may not like the answer, they are absolutely perfect, and I hear that from veterans groups as well.

The other thing too, Madam for you, is the fact that if a veteran marries after the age of 60 and then dies later, the spouse receives nothing. But that's not a DVA problem; that's a DND problem. I'm working on that one to fix it.

My question for you is something I've asked DVA before, and the minister has been very receptive, although it's a challenge—not for St. Anne's Hospital but for hospitals across the country that are provincially run yet funded by DVA for the veteran. When the veteran is elderly and placed in, let's say, Camp Hill hospital, their spouse isn't able to go with them. They are separated. We had the Maybee case in Halifax, which was national news. Unfortunately, Mr. Maybee passed away yesterday, so that problem won't happen any more.

Are there discussions with the provinces across the country to be able to tell elderly veterans in the last stages of their lives that their spouse will be able to be with them in their room, to cohabit for whatever remaining period they have? I know when I spoke to Paul Brown and Wendy Shea they had those initial discussions, because a lot of it has to do with the provinces. It really is quite sad: an aging veteran who is under a paliative situation for a few months and can't be with their spouse at the end of their lives. I find that rather challenging. Are there discussions within DVA for that?

[Suzanne Tining]

We recognize that this is a challenge. To the extent we can, when we work with a veteran in order to get them into a long-term care facility, our preference is to find the veteran a facility close to home and a facility for both men and women. However, depending on the level of care of that veteran--let's say the level of care is at the higher end--we focus on what the veteran needs in order to deal with his physical care or his health care. That may mean, at times, that the only long-term care facility that can provide that level of care does not allow spouses, for example. So each case is a case in itself.

I want to thank you for your comments on the two individuals in Halifax. I feel very privileged, as head of the department, to have such a committed group of professionals who really do put central to their own daily lives the care and the needs of the veterans. In terms of our front-line staff, I have more staff than one could think of whose own needs are put second fiddle to whatever they can do to meet the veterans' needs. It's a great privilege to serve, frankly, as the head of a department that has such committed people.

Again, as in your example, we are doing, and I'm very confident that our staff is doing, everything we can to accommodate the wishes and needs of the veterans. At times, though, you have to make a decision on whether or not to allow a long-term care facility that doesn't quite provide the level of care required but does allow the spouse.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister, Mr. Hillier. We appreciate it. Thank you for not only answering all the questions but also committing to get back to us with information. The committee has to move on to some regular business, but if you would like to shake hands and say goodbye, you can take two minutes to do so.

After that, members, we need to return to some business before we adjourn.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Order.

We have a little bit of business to complete before 5:30. I always like to get you out of here on time, before I have to ask for unanimous consent to extend the meeting.

We have a number of invitations that we need to take a look at. The first invitation is for February 24 here in Ottawa.

I should note right away that there's a mistake in the French version. It says “jeudi” and it should say “mardi”.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

You're getting good; you noticed that before anyone else.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

No, it's the fine clerk's expertise that brought that to my attention; credit where credit is due.

At any rate, it's the 24th. I'm certainly at the disposal of the committee. We can just leave this invitation for individuals, which certainly would be how I would like to do it, or work up a whole budget and travel there as a committee.

Is there any comment on that?

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

If I may suggest, Mr. Chair, given the fact that it's right here in Ottawa, I think it should be up to each one of us to look at our schedules and make arrangements to go.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Yes, for those who can. Thanks, Madam Sgro.

Monsieur Gaudet.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

I would like to make a suggestion. I don't know if it could be done on a Monday or Tuesday afternoon. We could travel there at the time that is usually set aside for our committee meeting. On Tuesday mornings at 10:30, many members are in the House, on duty, or they are attending other committee meetings. If we were to schedule it for Monday or Wednesday afternoon, then we could all go. That is my opinion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Monsieur Gaudet.

Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I just want to point out that the date in the invitation is because it is the official opening, and they thought it might be special because of all the interest in the facilities, that maybe the members would like to be there. So I don't think we can change the date, and if we can't go as a whole group, I think individuals should feel free to go.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Okay, it looks as though there's consensus that we go individually.

Certainly, again, I'm at the disposal of the committee. If sometime in the future you want to travel there as a committee and see the operation, we could do that, but of course, as Mr. Kerr said, you'll miss the grand opening.

It sounds as though we have consensus that individual members will just go if they'd like. Of course, it has been requested that you RSVP, so please let them know whether you will or won't go, okay?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I won't suggest a bus again, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Kerr.

Next is the Memory Project invitation. Do we have paper on that? No, that was distributed at the last meeting.

The suggested date that has been requested by the Memory Project is Thursday, February 26. It will go from 7:30 a.m until approximately 10 a.m.. That's just at the Chateau Laurier, so it's within walking distance. I understand they will provide breakfast. So again I just wonder, first off, whether that date works. If it doesn't, I guess we can go back to the Memory Project people.

If that date is good for most people, then the second question would be, are you okay with treating that the same way as this other invitation, that we just make our way as individuals?

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

I think it makes sense to do it that way.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I understand we don't have to stay right until 10, if we have other arrangements and responsibilities.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I think it's like any meeting. If you have another meeting to go to, I think they'll understand. We can certainly respond to them in our RSVP, and individually as well, and let them know if we can stay for the whole thing.

Members, the clerk has just informed me that she's going to be the quarterback on this, so you'll simply RSVP through the clerk whether you can make it or not and how long you can stay.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much for that.

Will all the coordinates and numbers and stuff be sent to us so that we could then call her back?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Yes, absolutely. We could do that by electronic mail, and then your staff could get it and respond to that.

Mr. Andrews.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Mr. Chair, on the Memory Project, the invitation letter that was sent to us suggested a Tuesday or Thursday in March, not February.