Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 11th, 2009

[Suzanne Tining]

To answer your question, it is because most of our programs can be considered quasi-statutory. Therefore, if someone meets the requirements of the program, the department has no flexibility when it comes to... The person is entitled to use the program, so it will be paid for. We can't say that there is no money left and refuse to pay. So when you ask about the difference between the forecast and the real expenditures, unfortunately, we are not in a position to be able to plan to the nearest dollar, to know how many veterans will come asking for our services. What is clear, however, is that if more eligible veterans ask for these services, then we have no choice but to provide them. Therefore, it is possible that we budget for a certain amount, but end up providing more services to our veterans. That is a partial explanation for the difference in the two numbers. It does not cover everything, but that is the main reason for the discrepancy.

[Roger Gaudet, Bloc, Montcalm, QC]

When the Charter and the ombudsman's position were created, one might have though that—and pardon the expression—the money was going to disappear in providing for the veterans and those who were in need. That is what came to my mind. Since we have a Charter for veterans and a veterans' ombudsman, that is where the money could have been invested. That is what I meant by my question.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Merci, Monsieur Gaudet.

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister.

Now we'll go to the Conservatives for five minutes. Madam O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

First of all, I want to thank you for a great presentation. As a newcomer and a beginner, I need all of this information, and I found it very interesting and informative, so I really appreciate all your work.

My question is probably very direct and comes from something I heard the other day. It was about veterans who have passed away, who before they passed away had never received any services. Does that mean their widow does not qualify to apply now either?

[Suzanne Tining]

I'd like to make a distinction.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Okay, I could have missed something.

[Suzanne Tining]

No, it's not that. I think on Monday when the minister...and perhaps today when I answered some questions, there were some questions related to the veterans independence program, which, from a survivor's standpoint, involves grounds handling and housekeeping, which are two pretty key services as you age or as you have physical needs. The change introduced in the budget last year was to the effect that you had aging widows whose husband--and in most cases, it was the husband, if you can allow me to say that--would not have asked for these services while he was living, but now the widows are in need of these services because they are disabled and have low income.

Before the budget of last year, there was no way for the department to give them that service, because unfortunately their husband had not come to us before he died. So that's for the veterans independence program.

For families, there are, as I said before, some benefits available to survivors. When you look at the disability pension, when the veteran dies you could say, “Well, you don't need the money any more”, but there is a survivor's pension that follows.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Okay. But even if he had never received any, would she still qualify or would they still qualify to apply for this?

[Suzanne Tining]

If he never got a pension for a pension condition, then the survivor is not eligible for a pension from us.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

That's what I mean. So they couldn't appeal, or they couldn't go through any of that process?

[Suzanne Tining]

No, because technically, although the individual would have served, he would not have had an injury related to service that would make him eligible to any benefits or services that we administer on behalf of the government.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

So then the widow doesn't qualify to apply for it?

[Suzanne Tining]

That's right.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Kerr, you have two more minutes.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Comments from the various organizations have often been mentioned, and it's an extremely important part of the advice you receive before policies change. At the meetings I've been at with you and the minister, it's been mentioned several times how pleased the representative groups are with the fact that it is a living charter and that therefore it is expected that they'll make many comments.

I wonder if you wouldn't mind emphasizing a bit more the kind of involvement you have with the organizations, the types of meetings that go on, and the kind of commentary you get back from them.

[Suzanne Tining]

As I said before, we have a very strong partnership with the Royal Canadian Legion, which is the biggest of the veterans organizations, and with all of the others. We have a legion in almost every town in the country. They have been working really hard with us over many years through the advisory committees we have set up, and through the ongoing working relationships we have with them, because, frankly, they are hearing from the veterans their satisfaction or dissatisfaction with whatever the department is doing or whatever the government is doing, and probably they're hearing many more things that they can inform about.

So it is a very strong partnership, and it has been part of the culture of the department, I would say, over the many decades to work very closely with veterans organizations and to allow them, as we are allowed, into what they feel are the issues for the clients that we serve. It's been paying tremendous dividends over the years, because we are not necessarily experts in all fields, and we are certainly not present as much as they are on the ground.

I'm not sure what more I can add.

Keith, do you have anything to add?

[Keith Hillier]

Really, when you look at it, the veterans organizations and the various advisory committees, which are made up of representatives and veterans, are quite capable of informing us of the concerns they're experiencing themselves as veterans or about what they're hearing from their colleagues. There's lots of information and lots of advice.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Kerr.

Now, as the format for rotation calls for another five minutes for the Conservative Party, is there anybody else who would like to question?

We'll go to Mr. Clarke.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Going back to health care for the veterans independence program, transportation for northern veterans getting to and from some of the communities is very difficult. Some of the communities are 500 or 600 kilometres away, or even further. What I'm kind of curious about are the allowances. Are there allowances for the veterans so they can meet their psychological needs or medical needs? Many of these people don't have the means to shell out the money in the first place. Is there a type of program available for them at that time?

[Keith Hillier]

For all veterans who have health-related travel needs, there is a reimbursement that would include things such as transportation costs. It would include things such as meals and accommodation. So if a veteran has a need to get medical service that is not readily available in the community, they are eligible for reimbursement of reasonable costs to get to and from the medical appointments.

[Suzanne Tining]

If I may add to that, we also have started, as a pilot project, tele-mental health. Because of the lack of professional psychologists and psychiatrists, especially in remote areas, we have an experiment going on in Calgary. We have videoconferencing with a health professional, who is not, perhaps, in that remote community but can provide support to deal with the individual's needs. So that's an area we are also looking into.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

When you say reimbursement, one of my concerns is that the residents in the north who are veterans don't have the funds to pay for their trips, and thus they're going without. Is Veterans Affairs looking at the option as well of paying for their needs at that moment?

[Keith Hillier]

This is the first I've heard of that particular concern, because we have been working on a reimbursement basis. But I believe there are certain circumstances when basically a special needs fund could look after certain expenditures when the veteran is in what I would say considerable need. Off the top of my head, I would think it would have to be done on a case-by-case basis when we look at these particular needs cases. But there is no formal mechanism to get an advance or to have, for example, a credit card to which it could be charged. If there are cases of veterans experiencing difficulty in that regard, if you would be good enough to bring them to my attention, we'll have a look at them.