Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 10th, 2009

[Brian Ferguson]

The operational stress injury clinics are located across the country.

Darragh, do you have the list in front of you?

[Darragh Mogan]

No, I don't have the list, but they're in Fredericton, Gagetown, Halifax, Ottawa, London, Winnipeg, Calgary, and of course the one at Ste. Anne's. I may have left out one or two of them.

[Brian Ferguson]

We'll get you the list of names of the hospitals.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I would appreciate that as well.

Further to Mr. Stoffer's concerns, how are current veterans going to be looked after in the next ten years?

[Brian Ferguson]

With respect to the operational stress injury clinics, they were set up specifically for the mental health concerns of veterans, including modern-day and traditional veterans. Those operational stress injury clinics are available for diagnosis and the development of treatment plans. As Mr. Stoffer mentioned, we operate completely within the current eligibilities, so our strategy is predicated on the fact that we have certain eligibilities for veterans in these facilities and we're trying to maximize the benefits to that client base within that framework. So what they are saying is that almost everybody who has approached the department and has eligibility for a long-term care bed would rather stay in the community they're close to.

Our vision is to build on that capacity in the provinces and continue to provide the benefits the government owes to these veterans in the community setting. Where they need the specialized care of a centre such as Ste. Anne's and can't get it in the community, that's when they will avail themselves of that capacity.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

I would think that this would require partnerships with provinces. Are we having any problems developing those partnerships with the individual provinces when it comes to developing these?

[Brian Ferguson]

We have very active consultation with the provincial authorities on the management of the hospitals. We have annual plans that are put in place for the operations of the hospitals, of what we will pay for in the upcoming year, what the emerging needs are, the changing needs of the clients who are in there. So there's quite an active, ongoing partnership with the provinces, and I'm not aware of any difficulties we're facing with that.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Storseth.

Now we'll move to the Bloc Québécois, Monsieur Asselin.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

In the document that was distributed to us, I see that a number of hospitals like Sainte-Anne were transferred to a number of provinces. Approximately 17 have been transferred to date, including 2 in Quebec.

We know that as soon as the transfer agreement is signed maintenance responsibilities would fall to the Government of Quebec, which would manage collective agreements, services, etc.

When the federal government transfers this type of facility, belonging to Veterans Affairs, to a province, how does it proceed? Is it through a sale or a property transfer, or would a simple signature suffice? Is the facility sold at a certain price?

[Brian Ferguson]

I will ask Darragh to comment, but basically, back to the comments we made earlier, it's generally an agreement between the two provinces. It has to be a legal agreement, and it will cover many aspects of the agreement that is reached.

Darragh, do you want to add to that?

[Darragh Mogan]

As a rule, the negotiations contain, as Brian was saying, quite a number of considerations that have financial implications, but the nominal transfer is usually a nominal amount. In some agreements it's ten dollars, in some agreements it's one dollar. There is a financial exchange, but it's rather more formal; it's not really related to anything negotiated as such.

[Brian Ferguson]

The nature of the legal document is the essence of the question. Are there any comments you'd like to make on that?

[Darragh Mogan]

It's a federal-provincial agreement that is legally binding on both parties. There are dispute resolution mechanisms, and if a dispute gets legal it goes to the Federal Court.

That's never happened, by the way.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

Very well.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

That will end our session right at 9:50, as we had planned. How do you like that?

Mr. Mogan and Madame Corneille Gravel, thank you very much for joining us via teleconference.

Mr. Ferguson, I think this gives you ample time to make your flight. We appreciate your coming and providing the answers that you have.

[Brian Ferguson]

Thank you very much for your flexibility, Mr. Chair.

[Rachel Corneille Gravel]

Thank you.

[Darragh Mogan]

Thanks a lot.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Now we'll move on to business.

The first item on business would be Mr. André's motion, but Mr. Kerr had presented an amendment to it, so we're on the amendment of the motion, which is within the study of the new Veterans Charter review. If you remember, Monsieur André's motion was regarding a study on suicides in the Canadian Forces, and then Mr. Kerr had this amendment.

Is there any discussion?

Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Certainly in thinking about it we're very strongly of the same view and we have a number of comments and questions this morning on that regard. I very much think this belongs in the charter review that we're doing. We made commitments to all those who've been involved in the review process. They have raised this issue, along with other issues. I think it's appropriate, and it deserves the appropriate attention. It has to be very clear that it has to be thorough, but we're of the mind that it should be done under the charter review, as we agreed to when the committee started its process.

This is one of the issues of concern to those who've been looking at the charter review. They're very strongly of the opinion that this should be kept within the review that's ongoing in terms of the charter. It's probably fair to say that we think that is the right thing to do, and we're still in that position.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'm actually going to speak against the amendment and suggest that I think we actually need to do a stand-alone study on this issue. There have been as many as 30 suicides by veterans from Afghanistan, so when we acknowledge the number of 137 or 136 deaths in that war, we are underestimating it. I think it is a significant issue that we have to consider. I can see how it relates to the new Veterans Charter. I think the new Veterans Charter has more to do with services and benefits than it does to do with issues around the very nature of what you're expecting of our military personnel. I will be voting against it and then voting for the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Chairman, I do believe that Mr. Kerr actually makes a good point about encompassing a particular study within the overall charter. I do want to say I just recently got back from Italy, and I mentioned this to several of the current military and to people who work with veterans issues. I specifically asked about the charter, and then I specifically asked about the unfortunate aspect of individuals taking their own lives. They said if they were committee members, they would study this specific issue outside, because this also deals with aspects of DND. This is why I'd like to make a friendly amendment to the review itself, because it says “suicide among former members”, but we have suicide among current members as well. So it should be “former and current members”.

So although Mr. Kerr makes a very valid point, I would have to agree with Mr. André's motion. I hope he would accept my friendly amendment of “former and current members of the service”.