Evidence of meeting #11 for Veterans Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was recommendations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Thank you, Mr. Marshall, for joining us here today.
The Gerontological Advisory Council was set up in 2005 at the government's request and has a mandate to advise, yet your advice isn't being heeded.
Tell me, who else is a member of the advisory council?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
We were actually set up 13 years ago. It was actually while I was still in Canada, in 1997. We've been in business 13 years.
Who else is on the council? Over the years we've had many people, but let's see if I can get them straight. They're in the report here. She went off a few years ago, but we've had Evelyn Shapiro from the University of Manitoba, who I would say counted at the time as the leading long-term care expert in Canada. The second one was François Béland, from the University of Montreal. He's still on the council. He's now the leading one, since Evelyn retired at the age of 80 or something like that. We've had Neena Chappell, who was the director of the centre on gerontology at the University of Victoria. She was on the council for a number of years. Norah Keating has testified before this committee. She is a gerontologist and an expert on families and the burden placed on the family through caregiving for people who have PTSD.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Mr. Marshall, would you characterize these individuals as leading authorities on gerontology?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
I'll tell you something with all respect and all lack of humility: they are the best gerontologists in the country.
Anne Martin-Matthews is on the council now. She's the scientific director for the Canadian Institute of Aging, which is one of the CIHR institutes, and she's as good as they get.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
It begs the question. Why have your recommendations fallen on deaf ears?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
As I say, they really have not fallen on deaf ears within the Department of Veterans Affairs Canada, so to say why they have fallen on deaf ears is at a political level, and I don't know if I should go there.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
You met with the civil service. You've met with the deputy minister and other civil servants and gotten positive feedback. Have you ever met with the minister?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
I haven't met with him one on one, but I've met him in the context of attending meetings.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
Has he ever given you any indication of his agreement with your principles and recommendations?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
Actually, I would say no. As I mentioned, when you write the letter, the response you get back basically says that the department is doing a lot for veterans; it's doing all these nice things for veterans. It never explicitly says, “We endorse this report.” We've never been told that the department endorses Keeping the Promise.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
So a council was struck, a report was written, and the recommendations won't be followed. They won't act on your recommendations.
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
I am hoping that maybe you folks can help some people to do so. The current vehicle, the new Veterans Charter advisory recommendations, really incorporates most of the same principles, the same basic principles, right?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
Also, there has to be some kind of evolution. At one point, of course, all the traditional World War II and Korea veterans will be dead, and then there will be no problem with two systems. There will be no problem achieving that a veteran is a veteran is a veteran, that kind of thing.
Liberal
Bonnie Crombie Liberal Mississauga—Streetsville, ON
If you had to prioritize, which of your recommendations would be most critical in the short term to have implemented?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
Maybe because I was on the economic committee of the new Veterans Charter advisory group, I think the recommendations about the economic injustices would be one.
The second critical one—and I know the Department of Veterans Affairs and the Department of National Defence are working on this—is what I would call the hand-off, the transition from DND to having Veterans Affairs Canada be responsible. It's in the report—there are all the delays, progress is being made, and Veterans Affairs is getting involved more while people are still serving. But those delays are costly. From a rehab point of view, it really slows it down. As Dr. Loisel explained to you, it's really costly if people don't get rehab in a timely fashion.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Mr. Marshall.
I'm sorry, Madam Crombie. I know it seems like the time flies when you're there.
Mr. Mayes for five minutes.
Conservative
Colin Mayes Conservative Okanagan—Shuswap, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank our witness for the work he has done over the last 13 years: nine for the former government and four for this government.
You talked a little bit about social determinants of health. I think that's a really important issue regarding veterans' recovery and mental well-being. It deals with family, community, and employment. In terms of a lot of these recommendations, it's easy to recommend something, but to include also how to implement those recommendations is really important.
There has been some discussion at committee about the possibility of employment opportunities for veterans, with DND or the federal public service, and that goes a little bit around to what you've talked about as far as economics are concerned. I don't think the mental well-being of a veteran is enhanced just by increasing pensions and giving more money. I think there has to be more to it than that.
Could you just develop on that statement?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
I agree with you completely.
One thing in my additional notes here that I thought I would try to get in is that education really is the key.
I've done some work... We're refining that work with a graduate student of mine who's going to do a dissertation out of it, and David Pedlar, the director of research, is going to be on our committee. But we've done some research with the Canadian Forces survey, which is fairly old now, but clearly shows that educational attainment really makes a difference when people are discharged with a disability. It's a huge difference. There are predictable levels. Those with less high school do a lot worse than people with some high school even. Having a degree makes a huge difference as well. It's a qualitative difference. There's a statistically significant difference in financial outcomes later in life.
I have a student in my class, a Caroliner—I just gave him an A on his term paper as a matter of fact—and he's here because he's paid for by the G.I. Bill in the United States. We used to send World War II veterans to college. Educational benefits can make a huge difference. It is a social determinant of health.
We have to remember—and this is referred to in the report—people who are transitioning from the military, which is a particular kind of work, are now going into other occupations in a different field. Having an educational foundation to be able to do that can be very, very important.
First of all--and this is a DND thing, not a VAC thing--I think there should be a lot more attention to helping serving soldiers and members of the forces upgrade their education while they're in the service, and in a sense make the forces an educational... No one should leave the Canadian Forces without at least the equivalent of a high school education--no one.
The university support would be an investment that is well worth it. Look at how educational benefits helped transform this country as well as the United States after the Second World War.
These were not even explicitly on the table. That's me talking. I think that would be a really good thing.
The other thing, in the broader sense, about the social determinants of health, and this may be where the recommendations in Keeping the Promise for a kind of jacked-up integrated case management system come into play, is you need a system that's comprehensive enough that you can handle the health aspects of the disability but also the social aspects in terms of economics and the family. They all intertwine.
We know that operational stress injuries, for example, lead to a lot of marriage failures, and we can understand why with the things people are going through. There are other things—increasing the use of the Canadian Forces bases. Family benefits programs and their accessibility by veterans are great. They're also in several parts of the country, which helps as well.
But I think case management is a really important function. That also means training people for broadly based case management, which integrates not just the health aspects but the family and economic aspects as well.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Mr. Marshall.
Mr. Mayes, thank you.
Now on to Monsieur André. Cinq minutes, monsieur.
Bloc
Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
The Gerontological Advisory Council reports directly to the Department of Veterans Affairs. Is your research funded entirely by Veterans Affairs Canada?
Chair, Gerontological Advisory Council
Yes, it's fully funded. We're basically volunteers, but it costs money to bring us to meetings.
Bloc
Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Fine.
Your mandate come from Veterans Affairs Canada. I assume that the people in the department have concerns and do studies. They give you research assignments, so you will produce a paper.