Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 16th, 2010

[Janice Burke]

Their travel will be funded by the department when they're in the rehabilitation program. That has been a major improvement to our system since the new Veterans Charter, because prior to that people had to wait until they got a disability pension decision in order for us to get them into treatment. So we can get them into treatment immediately, without waiting for it.

[Raymond Lalonde]

The decision is made by the case manager at the district office level. Economic support may be offered to replace income. That represents 75% of income. The person does not have to go through the disability process, wait a number of weeks and file an appeal, and so on. Services can be provided in the context of the rehabilitation program.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes, but that person's case has to be accepted. If it isn't, does that amount—

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We have to wrap it up, Mr. Vincent.

The final question, Ms. Duncan, and then I have a couple of things to say.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you.

Again, I'm going to come back to prevention. I really believe prevention starts as soon as someone enters the forces, with the education awareness and what the symptoms are.

If I look at the data for the number of clinicians—psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, etc.,—to forces members, we're looking at 32 psychiatrists, for a ratio of about 0.0049. They're saying 350 clinicians for 65,000, which comes out to about 1 to 186. The psychiatrists matter. You have provided information for VAC: 2,000 clinicians registered. I would ask that you table with this committee the number of psychiatrists, clinical psychologists, mental health nurses, social workers, health service chaplains, addiction counsellors, and what the ratio is to VAC clients.

I'm going to finish by saying that I was going across the country last week and we met a veteran who asked for a private meeting. He explained that there are a lot of suffering veterans out there who VAC knows about, and even more out there who no one knows about. They're not followed. He told us of three young veterans who died alone, suffering with PTSD. They had lost their spouses. I'm wondering if there's something we can do.

They come home. They become a veteran. Are they assigned a case manager? Can a case manager have 30 or 40 people they can check on? They've got to be tracked.

[Janice Burke]

To go in order of your questions, the reference to the 65,000, I'm not sure if that was the Canadian Forces.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Yes.

[Janice Burke]

Okay. I can't confirm that number, obviously—

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

I can.

[Janice Burke]

—but on the second, we actually have our providers registered in a database. Of the 2,000, we can provide you with what proportion of them are mental health nurses, psychologists, psychiatrists, occupational therapists, social workers.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Could that be tabled?

[Janice Burke]

Yes.

On the third point you made, certainly it is not acceptable that any veteran is alone and not getting the kinds of services they need. That's certainly an area of concern to Veterans Affairs, if that is happening.

Again, one of the things we're trying to do for the people who are being released is the transition interview, to flag people, and then for case managers to follow them. That's the way the process is supposed to work. We do know, as I said before, that there are a number of veterans who were released after the Korean War, up to 2006, who didn't have the benefit of that process.

We are looking at ways we can do better outreach. Again, it's making people aware, and communities as well. I mentioned the Canadian Mental Health Association. We're doing work with different community organizations who provide social support, and we're working with homeless shelters to try to identify these veterans and get them into treatment.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Could they be tracked the way Ms. Sgro has suggested? If they have a pension, are we checking in with them every three months? Are we checking in with them more often?

[Janice Burke]

Yes. We actually have statistics on all of our veterans who are in receipt of a disability pension for a psychiatric condition. We know exactly where they're located. We know how many there are. We know their age.

We have done a lot of work in terms of trying to really understand the profile. That information is provided on an ongoing basis to the district offices as well. I mean, they obviously have their own inventory; they do know who their clients are.

Again, this requires more work to ensure that not one veteran doesn't have the support they require. It's really important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay, thank you.

Mr. Vincent, I know you had another question and I cut you off. So out of the kindness of my heart, please give us that final question.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

As the researcher told me earlier, when you're released from the Canadian Forces as a result of a post-traumatic stress problem, you receive an amount equal to 75% of your salary. I understand that. You told me that earlier. The question I want to raise is that, four years later—and the statistics show this—many of those people leave the armed forces on their own. They hang up their uniforms and it's all over.

I would like to know what happens if, seven, eight, 10 months or one year later, individuals believe they need care for a problem that arose when they were military members but that they didn't talk about when they were in service. Those people come to you and tell you they're really suffering from a major problem.

You told me those people had a salary. Is that the salary they're paid when they're released? Or how can they receive compensation when they're still employed, before being released? How long does it take for them to get a consultation if they file an application?

[Raymond Lalonde]

If a veteran comes to see us five, 10 or 15 years later because he is having service-related problems returning to civilian life, because he has mental health problems that he was not aware of earlier, the new charter gives us the opportunity to consider a rehabilitation plan.

In the context of a rehabilitation plan, we put services in place to solve medical, psychosocial and professional problems. During that time, even 10 years later, individuals can receive 75% of their salary to support them during their rehabilitation. That amount is indexed on the basis of the number of years that have elapsed since they left the Canadian Forces.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

What's the waiting time? Is it the 24 weeks you referred to earlier?

[Raymond Lalonde]

No. The 24 weeks is for disability pension applications. It's much quicker for rehabilitation program applications, 95% of which are accepted. Those applications are processed by the case manager at the district office. The case manager responds to them very quickly. I don't know the exact time frame.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I have one final question.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

How much time does it take to be called back? Is there a policy on calls made at the Department of Veterans Affairs? Do you have to call back within 48 hours, 72 hours?

[Raymond Lalonde]

There is a policy, but I couldn't give you any details about it.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Again on the subject of suicide prevention that we're studying, do you share with the Canadian Forces the data or impressions you gather when you provide clinical treatment to people suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Vincent, it's time to stop. We've gone on. I have allowed you an extra question.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I was trying to make it to 5:15 p.m., as you told me. You had to stop me at 5:15. I was trying to get there.