Veterans Affairs Committee on March 18th, 2010

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

When will the bus be back?

[The Clerk of the Committee, Mr. Jacques Lahaie]

The same day. It's a two-hour drive, so if it left early in the morning, we could take the bus around 2:30 or three o'clock from Montreal to be back here.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Okay, that would work.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Monsieur André.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Lahaie, would a Tuesday have been possible?

[The Clerk]

I believe so. We were told that it would be very difficult before Easter. I suggested Thursday. I thought Committee members would prefer Thursday.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

It's just that we are going right past Ste. Anne's Hospital on Tuesday around 8 or 9 o'clock.

[The Clerk]

If it's agreeable to all members, we could do it on Tuesday the 13th.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Is that all right with you?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Are there any concerns about a date?

[The Clerk]

A Tuesday or a Thursday.

[Some hon. members]

Tuesday.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

As long as we decide on a Tuesday that can work for the majority of members, then we'll go with that.

Are there any questions around the budget?

Mr. McColeman.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

I'd like to know approximately where in the journey you'll ask me to step off this bus.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

On that note, Mr. McColeman, it's probably good that we discuss that a bit. The last time we had some issues that transpired in the House that, how would I say, required whips to begin to diminish the population on the bus. I hope we'll be able to avoid that this time. I did mention to Mr. McColeman that it was one of the less savoury things that I've ever had to do. Let's hope we can make the trip all the way there.

I'm not seeing any questions on the budget. I'm not seeing any questions on the fact that it's a Tuesday. So can I get a motion that the proposed travel budget to Ste. Anne's Hospital, in Montreal, in the amount of $2,587, be adopted?

It is moved by Mr. Stoffer.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

The clerk has been so efficient that we'll actually be presenting this budget to the liaison committee today. We'll be able to get back to you at the next meeting and let you know whether that's arranged.

I asked a question to the clerk regarding whether the staff and all the stakeholders of the hospital were ready to receive us. After Easter is best, because then they will be ready.

If there is no further business, we will suspend for five minutes until the minister arrives, and then we'll continue.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

We will resume our third meeting of the veterans affairs committee, in the third session of the 40th Parliament.

I would like to welcome the Minister of Veterans Affairs.

And welcome Madam Tining.

Minister, I understand you have some opening remarks. We will get to those immediately, and then we'll continue with our regular questioning.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Members of the Committee, good morning. As you know, there was a Cabinet meeting. Sometimes discussions go on longer than expected. That is why I was a few minutes late. Please accept my apologies. There was no negative intent on my part.

Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, this is the first time I have had the pleasure of appearing before you since I was appointed Minister of Veterans Affairs on January 19—at most two months ago. Like you, I am honoured to work on behalf of those who have given so much to Canada. I look forward to working with you, the members of this Committee, to foster a clear and open dialogue because, as I am sure you agree, Canada's heroes deserve nothing less than our full support.

I would like to introduce Ms. Suzanne Tining, who is the Deputy Minister of Veterans Affairs. I am happy to have her by my side. There is excellent cooperation between us and things are moving forward in a positive manner. I wanted to mention that.

Veterans Affairs Canada is going through an exciting, yet challenging time, as the face of our veterans' community continues to change. Of course, you are aware of this already, but I am happy to be here today to discuss this with you and, hopefully, to give you a better understanding of where my priorities lie.

Veterans Affairs Canada's mandate is twofold. First, the Department endeavours to offer client-centered services and benefits that meet the needs of our veterans and their families. Second, the Department works to ensure that the victories and sacrifices of those who have served Canada are remembered and celebrated. I'm sure those of you who are here today will agree with me that, in Quebec, we have to pay particular attention to the Department of Veterans Affairs. There is less appreciation of its importance in that province, whereas in other provinces, its role is very prominent in the media, as well as in day-to-day events.

I would just like to cite the following example. Two weeks ago, I spoke of April 9, which is the memorial day scheduled to take place at the Canadian War Museum in honour of those who fought during World War I. The next day I checked the media coverage. In practically all the English-language newspapers, this was reported. In French-language newspapers, it was referred to in only one newspaper, Le Droit. Do you see my point with respect to differences of perception? We have work to do in that area. I intend to take a personal interest in this.

Our government remains deeply committed to providing our veterans with the highest quality programs and services. We continue to do all we can to improve their well-being and the well-being of their families as we ease the transition to civilian life for all those who have served in the military.

Our clientele is made up of veterans from the Second World War and the Korean War, and former and active members of the Canadian Forces. We also serve the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, civilians who are entitled to benefits because of their wartime service, as well as family members and dependants.

Recently, I had the sad duty to announce—including to some of you—that our country had lost the last known Canadian to have served in World War I. I would now like to take a moment to pay my respects to Mr. John Babcock, who passed away at the age of 109. Jack, as he was known to his friends—although to me, he is Mr. Babcock—was an extremely kind and generous man whose unbridled affection for Canada never waned, despite the many years he lived outside its borders. Several days after Mr. Babcock's passing, I announced that April 9, the 93rd anniversary of the Battle of Vimy Ridge, had been chosen as the day on which we would honour all Canadians who served during that war. I know I join all members of this Committee in encouraging Canadians to participate in this very special day, either at events here in Ottawa, or in the provincial and territorial capitals across the country.

Mr. Babcock's passing is symbolic of the significant changes taking place within Canada's veterans' community and within the department tasked with serving them.

Veterans Affairs budget of 2010 takes into account these evolving demographics and the changing needs that result from it. As a result, I am targeting our priorities, and our spending will be focused on the areas of greatest need for both our traditional and modern-day veterans.

The Supplementary Estimates (C) for 2009-2010 included new funding for programs that support our allied veterans of the Second World War and the Korean War, and for activities to recruit and retain the necessary health care professionals in order to successfully treat and support our veterans.

The Department's Main Estimates for 2010-2011 are set at $3.41 billion. This is an increase of $50 million from the 2009-2010 budget. The greatest increase will be in the financing of disability awards and allowances. The increase will be $86.2 million. Additional funding will also be reallocated to health care benefits.

As a result of the changing demographics of the veteran community, some programs will see a reduction in spending due to the decreasing number of traditional veterans.

Ladies and gentlemen, as you are aware, approximately 2,000 Canadian veterans die each month. We know that the average age of those who fought in World War II is approximately 86. Many of them are clients of our Department. But, as traditional veterans pass away, ever-increasing numbers of modern-day veterans, many of whom have various and complex needs, require our services. So, we're talking about two inverse curves—for traditional and new veterans—which are intersecting.

And just as we have responded to the evolving needs of our traditional war veterans over the past 65 years, today we are adapting and responding to the needs of these modern-day veterans. Therefore we will also see spending grow in some programs.

The number of new veterans grows daily. We estimate a few years from now Canada will have more modern-day veterans than Second World War and Korean War veterans. In 2015, donc dans cinq ans, there will most likely be three times more modern-day veterans than traditional war veterans. We must continue to adapt our programs and services to meet that reality.

Our department offers modern-day veterans and their families the support they need to move back to civilian life. This range of programs includes: rehabilitation services, health benefits, a job placement program, financial help, disability awards, and also death benefits.

Working closely with the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Forces, Veterans Affairs Canada offers current members of our military, our veterans and their families many services through the network of integrated personnel support centres, or IPSCs, located throughout Canada. Each of these 19 centres is a one-stop shop for current and former members of the Canadian Forces who are sick or wounded. And each of these centres helps these brave Canadians get the services and care they require.

Our government has doubled the number of clinics that treat operational stress injuries, for a total of ten. Furthermore, the official opening of the residential treatment clinic for operational stress injuries at Ste. Anne's Hospital in Montreal will take place next week.

The new Veterans Charter has brought many important changes to the ways in which we have assisted our veterans for the last 65 years. In addition to safeguarding financial support for modern-day veterans, the Charter takes a new approach by focusing on their overall well-being and readjustment to civilian life. Previously, veterans who were wounded as a result of service to their country received a disability pension and medical benefits. Even though these have been shown to be an important form of compensation, they do not necessarily ensure an easy return to civilian life.

Compensation in the form of a tax-free disability award opens up additional financial possibilities. It is extremely important to recognize that this payment is only one of the many elements that are in place to help. The disability award recognizes that a person was injured. It recognizes their pain and suffering. Veterans can use it to buy a house or make some investments. And, if they like, they can receive financial counseling on how to best make that money work to their advantage.

In addition, they can receive monthly financial support if they have rehabilitative needs, whether these be physical, medical, psycho-social, or vocational. This income lasts as long as it is needed to ensure the veteran gets back on his or her feet.

Once they have completed rehabilitation and are physically and emotionally well enough, they can get vocational training and they still receive that monthly supplement. And if a soldier is so severely injured that he or she cannot support their family after all, that monthly income continues until the age of 65, when the old age security kicks in.

Earlier this week, you heard from departmental officials about the new Veterans Charter. If you read the case studies that were distributed to you then, you can see how effective this new approach is. These are real life examples that compare how individual clients would have fared under the old system, as compared to the new. Up to now, more than 20,000 clients and members of their families have benefited from the advantages provided by the Charter.

Even though our work is not done, and improvements are always possible, the Charter is generating positive results. Of course, I am listening to what Canadians have to say. We are, and will continue, evaluating and trying to improve the services we offer to veterans and their families. External stakeholders and organizations such as the Veterans Ombudsman, the Advisory Group on the new Veterans Charter, hearings such as the ones that brought us here today, and initiatives such as the study on life after military service all contribute to the pursuit of this goal. I recently asked the Department to contact a number of veterans who have received the disability award to determine how that payment has helped them.

Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, I visited Quebec City at one point, and specifically Valcartier, where I heard some veterans complaining about this single payment. I have asked the Department to determine whether, in actual fact, the individuals who received these lump-sum payments had wasted the money, used it inappropriately or, on the contrary, had put it to good use. The research that we have begun in this area is not far enough advanced for me to be able to tell you what the overall result is. However, 90% used our advisory services on investments and 56% of them said they were satisfied. That means that 44% were not satisfied. There are many different avenues that we will want to look at more closely in the coming months.

I also attended a town hall meeting with the Veterans Ombudsman to hear first-hand his views on the new Charter. I must admit I am impatient to see the results of your current study. It would be very valuable for us if you could also hold consultations on the lump-sum payment. At the present time, we give them a single payment—for example, $100,000. In actual fact, the payment may be as much as $276,000, depending on the person's disability. The comment that I heard was that, at some point, people would like to have a choice. After that, some were saying they were not able to properly manage the lump-sum amount they received all at once. It was a though they felt incapable of doing so. If they are incapable of managing it, should we be thinking, for example, of spreading the payment over five annual payments, rather than a one-shot deal? There are many different ways of approaching this. You might want to consider conducting such a study, if you deem it appropriate.

Behind the programs and services provided by Veterans Affairs Canada lies a duty to never forget what our veterans mean to this country.

Thanks to partnerships with local and regional organizations, as well as to social networking sites like Facebook and YouTube, we are working to remind Canadians of the importance of remembrance.

During Veterans' Week last year, we saw just how successful these tools could be in engaging Canadians in remembrance. Now, I am pleased to report, we are exploring new ways to use them to reach out to and engage our clients.

So, as you can see, this government remains committed to serving veterans and their families. One million dollars was set aside in budget 2010 for a new memorials program. This is just one more way Canadians can honour the sacrifices and achievements of our veterans.

We are taking the best practices of the past—in caring for our traditional war veterans—and applying them to the future care and remembrance for those who are giving us so much for this country today.

I am pleased that the Department is writing a new chapter in the constantly-evolving story of how it serves those who have so bravely served Canada. The recent passing of Canada's last known First World War veteran reminds us more than ever of our moral obligation to remember.

In closing, even though I was only recently named as Minister of Veterans Affairs, I like my new responsibilities and have learned a great deal from meeting with the men and women we serve about their needs, their hopes and their desires. We have a moral obligation to recognize their sacrifices in a meaningful way. Each conversation reinforces that obligation; each discussion gives it new meaning.

I would be pleased to talk with you about the work my Department is doing and any particular issue you feel is important. I look forward to hearing your comments and suggestions about how we can better serve Canada's veterans in the years to come.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Minister Blackburn.

Now we're going to try to do two rounds of five minutes, as agreed to earlier.

We'll go over to the Liberal Party and Mr. Oliphant for five minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister, and congratulations. I wish you the best of luck in your new post. I think it is the best job in Canada. In my opinion, it is an incredible experience to work with the men and women of the Canadian Forces.

Now, I do have a few questions for you. First of all, I believe you met with Ms. Matteau, of Quebec City, or that you will have an opportunity to meet with her soon. You may have met with her son, Corporal Nicolas Magnan. She says that a monument is not something you can eat. There must be compensation—not only in the form of a lump sum amount, but also a monthly pension.

What are your views on the situation of our “new” veterans returning from Afghanistan? Is there funding available to meet their needs?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

That is a good question. When I was in Valcartier, I did in fact have an opportunity to meet Ms. Matteau. Am I right that it is Ms. Matteau and her son, Mr. Magnan? I haven't mixed up their names, I hope?

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Yes, he is her son.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Some of that information is public and I can therefore share it with you.

First of all, imagine that you are a soldier returning from Afghanistan. Let's suppose that you were wounded. For the first three years after your return, you remain under the responsibility of the Department of National Defence and you receive your full salary, as usual. Furthermore, during that period, you will be assessed as to the extent of your disability and, based on that, you will receive a lump-sum payment.

But it does not stop there. When these individuals come back to Veterans Affairs, we encourage them to enroll in a rehabilitation program. The idea is not to leave someone to fend for himself, but rather to ensure that he is rehabilitated and transitions to civilian life—particularly since our “new” veterans are much younger. We don't want them to be sitting at home watching their life go by. I think we would be remiss in our duties were we to do that. So, we encourage them to enroll in a rehabilitation program. While they are in that program, they receive 75% of the wages they were receiving when they left the military, until they are rehabilitated or have found a job offering comparable wages to what they were previously receiving. So, there are both of those things—not just a lump-sum payment and nothing else. The two are linked.

It is important for us to give these individuals an opportunity to be rehabilitated, to return to civilian life, to continue to grow and live an active life based on the plan that is developed. If a person is not able to do that and is permanently disabled, at that point, 75% of his or her wages will continue to be paid until the age of 65. So, those are the facts.

At the same time, it is also possible that these individuals, when they are given a single lump-sum payment, end up making poor use of it. I won't give any specific examples, but this is something we must assess. If that is true, then we have a responsibility to find a solution. If we determine that some people are misusing this money, we may have to review our process and our way of doing things. I do not yet have that information, but that is where we are at present.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I just have a little bit of time. I don't believe you're saying that Mr. Magnan used money unwisely; I would argue that perhaps the money is not enough.

He is one example. Is there an estimate your department has on the costs for the aftercare for soldiers like him coming back from Afghanistan? Do you have a way of segmenting that money to say what the cost is for aftercare for all veterans returning from Afghanistan, segmented out from the other costs of your department? It's impossible for me to read that in the estimates, so I'm just trying to look at the cost of the Afghan mission and the “people care” that we owe them when they come back.