Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 30th, 2010

[Pascal Lacoste]

I will answer your first question. You want a name? The director of the Veterans Affairs Canada office, Quebec City district. When I asked for psychological help at the outset, public servants filed a complaint against me with the police. They said that I wanted to assault them and that I had threatened them. They said that I was armed when I made those threats. When I asked what kind of weapon this was, a public servant answered that it was a knife and another one said it was a pistol. I didn't threaten anyone; I simply said that I really needed help. The director of the Veterans Affairs Canada office, Quebec City district, who held that position from 2000 to 2003, is aware of the entire case.

With regard to my pension, these people linked all my health problems to post-traumatic stress. My knee problems, my irritable bowel, my chronic fatigue, my chronic pain and my post-traumatic stress were all lumped together under the same banner. Yet I don't know anyone for whom post-traumatic stress leads to knee problems. Could it be that my knee problems are related to the fact that I was in the infantry for 14 years and that I was a paratrooper?

I receive a pension of about $2,600 a month. I'm not sure of the exact amount. The problem is not only my pension; it's especially the care. The allocation of care is defined in an extremely rigid predetermined chart. It's the veteran who has to adapt to the chart and not the reverse. Do you understand what I mean? For my part, I fall between two charts. But immediately, they assessed my case as corresponding to the lower chart's criteria. Therefore, I do not have access to the care required by my condition.

When my spouse was deployed in Afghanistan, I received care through provincial services. They were the ones who took care of me, who provided the amount that the department refused to pay. The benefits I receive to cover my care are inadequate given the state of my mental and physical health. Despite that, the people at the department say that they're conducting studies. They've been studying my file for over 12 years. In the meantime, I'm not receiving the care and services required by my condition. These people say that they understand my situation but that my case does not correspond to the criteria in the charts.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Your concern with Ste. Anne’s is very real, because Ste. Anne's Hospital right now is in the process of being divested to the Province of Quebec. In fact, the top two floors of Ste. Anne's Hospital right now are for civilians, not for military personnel. Your concern about Ste. Anne's is very real, because the future of short-term and long-term care for veterans is rather precarious. We don't know what's going to happen to the modern-day veterans when they need that short-term and long-term care across the country, so thank you for raising that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

We'll go to Mr. Storseth, please.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Lacoste, thank you for your service to our country and for the continued dedication of both you and your family for service to our country. I don't think that can be said enough.

I have lots of questions I'd like to ask you to get as much input from you as possible about the changes that need to be made, but first, since I have two military bases in my riding, I always find it important to ask this: which unit did you serve with?

[Pascal Lacoste]

I was a member of the paratrooper company of the Royal 22^nd Regiment.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you.

One thing that's always tremendously frustrating for me—and I hear this all the time in my riding with service men and women—is the comments that are made about the lack of proper documentation, the bureaucratic nightmare. Quite frankly, when you're serving, when you're out on the back of a half-ton or you're out on the range, you're not going to sit down and do all the proper paperwork because you sprained your knee or hurt your back.

I mean, it drives me crazy that you're put in such a rigorous, intensive job, and the bureaucrats have such a high level of demand for our soldiers when it comes to reporting injuries and having it all properly assessed.

This leads me to a question on something you've brought up a few times today. Do you believe the men and women of our Canadian Forces would be better served if at least some of the front-line workers with Veterans Affairs were former CF members and had a better idea of the mentality and some of the things you've gone through as a Canadian Forces member?

[Pascal Lacoste]

There's no doubt that that would help a great deal in understanding the needs.

As I said earlier, the big problem as I see it is one of communication, because the veteran has to talk to administrators. There's no human side here. I think that there's an essential element missing here which would be a social worker. The veteran should be adequately assessed by a social worker. Then that social worker would work with the administration.

When it comes to understanding post-traumatic stress syndrome, it is true that we find out whether or not we're cut out to be a soldier the minute bullets start whistling past our ears for the first time. From that point onwards, something really incredible happens inside us. That primitive instinct kicks in and we know whether or not we're cut out for this.

We recognize each other. We have enormous respect for each other and indeed there is a problem of trust. Veterans are afraid of the system. So if another soldier approaches them, from that point on that trust is much easier to establish. But people are very suspicious.

Yes, I'm a volunteer caregiver, and it is true that as a caregiver and as a soldier suffering from this problem, it's much easier to just talk about it with a brother or sister in arms, because there is a nuance here. You don't feel judged. You feel supported and that's what we need.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you.

You made a comment--I got this through the translation here--about being kind of trapped under the inferior charter. The system you were put through is much different from the current system with the Veterans Charter.

Neither one is perfect, for certain, but do you have a comment on which system is better? Is it better now?

[Pascal Lacoste]

Personally, I don't like the new charter, because a large lump sum of money is given to someone in poor mental health. That money will not be adequately used.

I am covered by the old charter, and I receive a certain amount every month. That takes away an awful lot of stress. We know that soldiers who suffer from post-traumatic stress syndrome have a lot of trouble finding a job. Receiving monthly benefits creates a certain stability. We know that the rent will be paid and that there'll be food in the refrigerator.

I'm completely against the new charter which pays a lump sum to someone who has difficulty managing their affairs because of their circumstances. Soldiers often feel that this provision of the new charter means that once the cheque has been cut, the government no longer wants to be bothered with them.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

That is certainly a valid concern we've heard, Mr. Lacoste, although a lot of other things have changed with benefits, and with ability to access educational training and so on. Do you feel that's better or worse under the new charter? I agree with you when it comes to the lump sum.

[Pascal Lacoste]

When it comes to training, here again, no social worker really assesses our needs. It's a bureaucrat who decides whether or not we're in a position to receive training. Does that bureaucrat really have the qualifications to analyze our case and assess it? I really doubt it.

Personally, I've been waiting for two years. The charter would allow me to go back to school, but I've been waiting for a decision from the department for two years. They are evaluating whether or not they should authorize me to do so.

Right now, I'm in school at my own expense and I'm not waiting for the system to decide how to run my life, because I'll be too old once the decision is taken.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you, Mr. Storseth.

We'll now go to Ms. Zarac, please.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Lacoste, thank you very much for appearing here today.

I am sure that this took a great deal of courage. I apologize for my emotional reaction; I was not expecting to hear testimony like this here today. This really goes against what we've heard up until now. So thank you very much for shedding light on what you went through and what certain other people probably went through. This is not the care that we're told is provided for veterans. This is certainly not the kind of care that should be given to our veterans. So thank you very much for your testimony.

Mr. Chair, I would ask for unanimous consent that we send Mr. Lacoste's testimony to Minister Blackburn and Minister MacKay for immediate action. I think it is outrageous what happened to him, and they should be aware of what's going on.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Do I have unanimous consent?

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

What is the request?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

To clarify the motion, the request has already been made that the tapes be sent to the ministers—or at least to Mr. Blackburn, and we can add Mr. MacKay.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

The request has been...?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

We've already just made the request that the tapes go.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Oh, okay. You've requested? When was this done?

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

We just did it--

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Okay. But I think we should make it official.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

That they be sent.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I think this committee should make it official, yes, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Okay.

Is there unanimous consent?

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Could you read the motion?