Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 14th, 2013

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

That takes us back to a question that Mr. Chicoine, I believe, asked at the outset. It was all about the symptoms, really. When the Gulf War syndrome was being studied, a possible link was observed between depleted uranium and some of the chronic symptoms. That was the starting point, the first studies. So we went back to those studies. Since the link had been established at the outset…

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

I don't think it's just the Gulf War syndrome. A number of other syndromes could be identified.

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

It's the starting point. That is where things started and where the term Gulf War syndrome was first used. Now, the official term is chronic multisymptom illness. To break that down, you can say that it is a chronic illness characterized by a number of symptoms.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

In your medical opinion, what do we have to do? You mention an effective treatment to reduce the suffering that the veteran is going through.

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

Soldiers experiencing that chronic multisymptom illness could go to a facility that is equipped to care for them.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Basically, I would like a little more stock placed in giving veterans the benefit of the doubt. As a doctor, do you think that is right for a veteran suffering an illness that he cannot explain, likely because there are no studies, no reports, that prove it exists, to have to prove that he has the illness with all the health reports and other papers that he has to submit to the Veterans Review and Appeal Board or to other agencies? Shouldn’t he get the benefit of the doubt?

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

You asked me what I think as a doctor. I will answer you as a doctor.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Yes, that is what I would like.

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

I do not want to go about things haphazardly. As a doctor, if a veteran came to see me and told me about his problems, I would find a way to treat those problems even if there was nothing specific and even if every possible test came up negative. Is it up to the patient to prove a problem to the doctor beyond any doubt? No, the doctor-patient relationship is dynamic; it is shared.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

I am happy that you are stating today that appropriate care must be given to someone asking for it.

Once again, I am asking you this as a doctor. We never have enough experts to share their expertise with us.

Can the situation in the Canadian Forces be improved right from the time that a new recruit signs on? Can we make sure that the proper tests are done at the outset and right through his service? Perhaps we could even make sure that he is monitored so that we have the evidence we were talking about. We would then be able to say that his health had been compromised during his service, when he was the Canadian Forces’ responsibility, because we can see that he is having problems.

Can we not improve the situation along those lines?

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

There is always a way to improve health care. We can see that in the constant increase in health care budgets.

The Canadian Forces have a good system, better, I have to say, than the civilian system in terms of monitoring. It is much better documented. Can it be improved? Probably so.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

I look forward to your suggestions.

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

It is not perfect, but I still have to say that it is very good.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Okay, since you are familiar with the armed forces environment, do you think that the system can be improved from the beginning?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Madame Papillon, sorry, that's it. Thank you.

We'll now go to Mr. Lizon, please.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Dr. Morisset, again.

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

Again.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I would like to start with a question related to conclusion 7. It's on page 2 of the summary. I'll read it:

There are many Veterans suffering from persistent symptoms following deployment or military conflict which, although not linked to specific exposures such as DU, can cause considerable suffering and can be effectively treated.

Would you agree that the symptoms may be real, but are categorically unrelated to DU exposure?

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

That's what we say. We say that it's not related. It has not been demonstrated to be related, but it exists. Nevertheless this entity does exist. We cannot wish it away; it does exist. It's been demonstrated very clearly, not just with the Canadians but with many troops. Essentially, among troops deployed by NATO countries, a number of them come back and they're not the same, and there's nothing that shows. It's not physical. It doesn't show up in a blood test. It doesn't show up on an x-ray. It doesn't show up in anything. It is a symptom. They are uncomfortable. They can't sleep. They're bothered. There's a whole array of symptoms.

Some are more clearly defined under this broad umbrella. For example, PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, is more easily definable. There are diagnostic criteria that have been established. It's not related to depleted uranium. That has never been demonstrated. There is no test that you can do. There's no blood test; there's no urine test; but there is a treatment. It's not just one treatment. It's not a pill, but it's a combination of different treatments, and overall success can be achieved.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I would like to follow that with my next question, where it says the primary conclusion of the report was that the Canadian veterans never had the combined risk, proximity to depleted uranium, in such a manner that could pose a negative health risk.

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

You're inventing that conclusion, because that's not what was said.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

No, I'm asking.

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

Oh, okay. So what's your question?

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

It's whether—

[Dr. Pierre Morisset]

—whether we believe it?