Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 25th, 2011

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

But it has to come from somewhere. If you are mandated to reduce spending, it has to come from somewhere.

I want to go back to what you said about the complexity of the services. You said it was like looking at legal documents. That has to be profoundly upsetting for veterans who, no matter the age, are dealing with what amounts to gobbledygook or something that's incomprehensible.

You're talking about the reduction of personnel in the department and that you're going to make the changes by going to computers and websites and things like that. For these human beings who look at this gobbledygook, do they not need other human beings to help them through this process?

I'm very concerned about the loss of personnel at DVA, and that it will, no matter what, have an impact on your ability. I know you are absolutely determined to deliver the very best that you can but I'm worried that these job losses will impact your ability to do that.

[Keith Hillier]

Mr. Chair, I would take a different view.

And maybe I can just go back a little bit to the point that Mr. Casey raised. I did talk about two elements, the $220-odd million we've talked about and the transformation of the department and, as the honourable member has mentioned, the deficit reduction action plan of government. For the deficit reduction action plan, we have gone through the process, and that's all we can tell you. Government will decide. We've gone through the process, as has every department in town.

I think it's very important to note that in the re-engineering, and what have you, that we're doing, we're not eliminating case managers, we're not eliminating the people who deal with veterans. For example, if you look at it over time, over the next five years, to the extent we can increase our website offerings and veterans can get answers to their questions on the website, the fewer the number of veterans who are going to call us. But I want to be very clear that the method of dealing with the department will always be the choice of the veteran. What we want to do is to provide multi-channels. Many of the younger veterans, and actually the siblings of the war era veterans, have certainly told us that they want to be able to do more things online: they want to change their address online, they want to be able to make applications online, and they want to receive communications from us online. So that's going to create a different business model. As we make some of the policy changes that my colleague James has referred to, if we make things simpler, they should be much easier to explain to veterans.

We are a department today that does provide walk-in service. And we actually go out and see veterans, and will continue to do so, if there's a need. So we're not reducing what I would call our service. At the end of the day, I think that five years from now you will see a veterans affairs department that's much more nimble and responsive to the needs of all veterans, whether they're 20 years old or 100 years old.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hillier.

As I say, we're going over our time, generally speaking.

I'll now go to Mr. Lobb.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The first question is for Mr. Hillier.

Mr. Hillier, on the report on plans and priorities, can you tell this committee either the date or month it was published and made public?

[Keith Hillier]

It would have been published in March 2010. The reports on plans and priorities are part of the government budgetary cycle. I don't have the exact date, but it would have been part of the spring budgetary cycle.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Just for clarification, it's 2011, isn't it?

[Keith Hillier]

Sorry, 2011. Je m'excuse.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I went through this document months ago, but obviously to anybody who was interested, this document would have been available for several months. Correct?

[Keith Hillier]

Yes, it would have been available at the time the government tabled its estimates in the House.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

So for anybody paying attention, whether a member of Parliament or anybody else concerned about Veterans Affairs, to read the felonious reports that were put out in October.... It must have been fairly surprising to you that it would have taken either that long or that they would have been put in that kind of a spin out in the public domain.

[Keith Hillier]

Well, Mr. Chair, I won't comment on that. All I can say is that the information was out there earlier and people choose to look at information at their convenience. So I won't speculate.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Fair enough.

Let's go back several years to 2008, and likely well beyond that, but I won't assume so.

Moving from 2008 forward, every year in the reports on plans and priorities, Veterans Affairs has indicated the unfortunate news that our aging veterans are passing away, but it also indicates a reduction in service uptake, which you've clearly indicated every year since I've been elected since 2008.

Is that correct?

[Keith Hillier]

Yes. There has been a gradual reduction in the number of Second World War veterans. The data are quite clear. And as I mentioned in my opening comments, for the first time in the history of the department, we have more modern-day veterans than traditional veterans.

When you get into the budgetary process, it's a series of puts and takes. There have been increases resulting from the new Veterans Charter, and Agent Orange, etc., and there have also been decreases relating to veterans. Also, in that mix, sadly, it's not just the Second World War veterans who are passing away, but also the widows of Second World War veterans. That is one of the drivers of the program's take-up.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Right. That is a good segue to my next question.

You mentioned in your opening statement that the services and benefits provided by Veterans Affairs are statutory in nature and have been legislated by the House of Commons, and are not to be dealt with in the department but simply delivered as presented by the legislation. Can you reiterate and confirm that to this committee?

[Keith Hillier]

I confirm that.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

You have a couple of minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Page 14 of this year's report talks about war service veterans, that their demographic is decreasing, and that the number of Canadian Forces veterans is increasing at about the same rate. In fact, in regard to the supplementary estimates, which I think you alluded to in your statement, your forecast back in March is actually playing out.

Is that correct?

[Keith Hillier]

Yes.

We're seeing a constant uptake in Canadian Forces, as we've indicated, of about 24%. That is an estimate based on the best information we have, working with our colleagues at DND and the Canadian Forces.

As I mentioned, in some cases we're seeing lower mortality among war-era veterans. In fact, if you look in the report on plans and priorities, you will see a number of charts and graphs, which we have been including for a number of years, actually showing that trend line. It's in the ballpark.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay. That's good. I appreciate that.

Mr. Chair, I'm going to read one of the comments that the member for Charlottetown has made. I'm quoting from his website:

The government indicated the biggest reductions will be in compensation and financial support for ex-soldiers. This really is a terrible decision.

In light of what we've heard today and the erroneous comments posted by the member for Charlottetown on his website, I would like to offer him an opportunity at the end of this meeting to apologize in public to veterans for the misleading direction he has taken.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Okay. We're just over the five minutes. We have been lenient, but certainly in the next round, we can add back onto it.

Thank you, Mr. Lobb.

Mr. Daniel, go ahead.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

Again, from a funding point of view, the payouts to the veterans will not be impacted at all by any of these reductions you're planning?

[Keith Hillier]

That's correct.

[Joe Daniel, Conservative, Don Valley East, ON]

And you will be able to realize the sorts of savings that are being asked of you through efficiencies and the rearranging or business re-engineering of Veterans Affairs?

[Keith Hillier]

Yes. The process we're using is actually a generally accepted business re-engineering model that has been well tested in North America. At the end of the day, it's about making it easier for a veteran to get the services and benefits he or she needs and trying to create what I would call a hassle-free environment for people to get the needed services and benefits, through the channel he or she chooses, whether online, at our office, over the telephone, or through the Internet. The veteran will make that choice.