Veterans Affairs Committee on June 6th, 2013

[Dave Rutter]

I'm afraid I'm unable to answer that question. I don't wish to be unhelpful, but the detail around armed forces compensation payment is very much a Ministry of Defence issue and they would have consulted at that time, so I'm not in a position to comment on the reasons behind the increase. I would suggest one of the reasons why they looked at it again would have been the increased operations internationally through the Gulf War, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Still on the subject of compensation, I know that you had a 2010 review of your compensation scheme. There has been a suggestion that promotions in service be factored into the amount of compensation that a veteran receives, such that, if they start from a certain level and you assume that over the course of their military career they would have been promoted but for their injury, that assumption is factored into their compensation. I know that was one of the recommendations.

Can you tell me whether it has been implemented?

[Dave Rutter]

I'm unable to answer that question. I would need to refer to the Ministry of Defence; my apologies.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Not at all; you explained up front that you have a particular specialty. There are just some areas that I need to learn about in order to better do the comparison.

Let me try one final one, if I may.

Your ministry, your department, serves about 900,000 veterans, if my research is correct. Your total budget is just under $20 billion. That would be about six times the budget in Canada and for four times the number of clients. Can you break down the most expensive elements of that $19 billion of spending on the program?

[Dave Rutter]

I'm not sure what you base those figures on. Within the Department of Health, as I explained, National Health Service England have a responsibility for about 4.5 million veterans in total. Obviously there are fewer, fortunately, who are seriously injured or have mental health problems, so the number of those is that much smaller.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

My numbers came from the SPVA corporate plans for 2009 to 2012. The figures I have are 900,000 clients, 190,000 of whom are war pensioners.

[Dave Rutter]

Those figures would be for the Service Personnel & Veterans Agency as part of the MOD, as an agency providing those services. They also provide pension services and advice to veterans. I can only guess that this is where that expenditure comes from.

Veterans and veterans' health are provided for within the NHS services more generally. I have a specific budget for the programs that I have been running here, of approximately £8 million for mental health and approximately £15 million for physical health, prosthetics, and other care.

The SPVA is a separate agency within the MOD, so the numbers that you quote are absolutely right. But this would include the pensions arm of the agency, as well as all the requirements around compensation, etc.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rutter.

Now we have Mr. Lizon for five minutes, please.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good day, Mr. Rutter.

I have a few questions, first with regard to funeral and burial services. Here, we provide funding for veterans under the funeral and burial program, and for some eligible veterans there is full coverage. The recent budget, the economic action plan 2013, doubled the amount of financial support for veterans and their families from previous amounts.

What does the U.K. provide for veterans with respect to funerals and burials? The follow-up question would be, if you do provide support, what is covered under the program?

[Dave Rutter]

As far as I'm aware, we do not provide any financial assistance for those other expenditures. Your minister met with ours, I think about 18 months back, and this was one of the issues raised. That wider expenditure for provision for veterans, which I know you provide in Canada, is not replicated here. When a veteran or a veteran's family are in particular need, they would normally, if it's not a statutory provision for all, often look to the services provided by the service charities—the Royal British Legion, Help for Heroes, SSAFA, and others.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much. That was quick.

We have here a program for veterans, the veterans independence program, which is designed and focused on providing home and health support to allow veterans to stay at home if they wish. We have improved this program by moving to a grant format, where upfront payments are provided.

Does the U.K. system focus on keeping veterans in their homes as they seek to maintain their independence?

[Dave Rutter]

That's certainly the aim across the population, where we look to ensure, wherever possible, people are able to stay at home and receive care at home. With veterans, there's an element where veterans will perhaps use some of their compensation as part of that care at home. The vast majority will be through the statutory authorities. I mentioned earlier on about that protocol to ensure that when people move out of the armed forces and back home that their care needs are properly met. That would be part of that process.

There will be other benefits, etc., available to veterans, but there would be benefits that are available to the wider population as well—disability payments, etc. That is about as much detail as I know on the actual payments.

Yes, there is encouragement that some older veterans will make use of some of the shelter homes. These are again made available by the service charities that we work with—so, again, the Royal British Legion and others—to provide a certain amount of housing stock for older veterans or veterans who are in particular need.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

If I understand correctly, there's no specific program that would be focused on providing services for those veterans who want to stay home, like providing cleaning services, lawn cutting, or snow removal, if necessary.

[Dave Rutter]

No, there's no specific service in that respect, just the wider services that would normally be made available to the public.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

That's okay. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rutter.

We now go back to the opposition. We have Mr. Stoffer for five minutes, please.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Rutter.

I should start off, sir, that I'm a Tottenham Hotspur fan. Which is your football team?

[Dave Rutter]

Nobody's perfect, sir.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Ouch, ouch.

[Dave Rutter]

Shall I leave now?

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Sir, I'm not sure if you're able to comment on this fact. When veterans here have a dispute with the government over a pensionable benefit, whether it's a certain percentage of the benefit they receive, or they don't receive anything at all, and they're appealing these decisions, are you able to discuss the appeal process of a veteran with the department in England in that regard. How does it work?

[Dave Rutter]

My understanding of this, again, is slightly without my immediate range of experience. My understanding is that where there is a dispute, as you describe, they can take that up with the Service Personnel & Veterans Agency.

Also there are pension boards—I may not have the correct terminology there. I know that within areas they have local boards that will help and discuss pension issues. The individual would be able to take up help and advice from one of the service charities to present their case to those boards. I think it's the Ministry of Defence SPVA process that allows people to access appeals in that way.