Veterans Affairs Committee on March 27th, 2014

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Sergeant Nielsen and Heather, we can sit around this table and certainly sympathize and offer our deepest gratitude, which we do, but I'll speak for myself and maybe some others around this table and say that I can't begin to imagine what you've had to live through at the moment, perhaps reliving the moment, and struggling through.... You spoke incredible words in saying that living, not surviving—persevering—must be a mindset. We're grateful for your sacrifice.

You mentioned having partners in your recovery: friends, family, various organizations, and government resources. We have to be willing partners and we have to be meaningful partners.

I wrote this down: do you have any anxieties associated with what will happen to you once you're no longer in active service? After I wrote this down, you mentioned that you do worry. You must know, of course, that many of us around this table—all of us around this table—are concerned about the disjoint between the amount of moneys that were paid under the old Pension Act, and now those that would be coming to you more recently under the new Veterans Charter.

You seem to be the kind of person who would be planning your future. Have you looked at and determined what you could expect to receive after you're no longer in active service?

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

I'm just getting into that phase right now. I'm currently in a phase called RTW, return to work. I was employed with Soldier On. I was the coordinator for eastern Ontario but I retired from that because I'm committed to the TPL adventure I'm about to go on. Then also I want to continue with my education and stuff. That's going to progress to my next career once I leave the forces.

I have some anxiety. For example, my leg, the C-Leg, the computer leg that I got from Ottobock out of Germany, is a $78,000 leg, and I very much thank all you taxpayers. I'm an active guy. I like to do a lot of stuff. I like to train. I do everything from renovating my basement to building fences to trekking, everything. So I'm aggressive with it. Right now I'm on a loaner because I killed the battery on it, and it's been sent back to Germany to get repaired.

I don't like to let weather hold me back from what I'm able to do. So a C-Leg, as great a leg as it is for walking and the technology that comes with it, unfortunately can't be exposed to adverse weather conditions, so I won't be trekking to the North Pole with this one. If I got it wet or exposed it to water in any sense, the microprocessor computer that runs the knee would short out and it's a $4,000 job just to repair it.

As I said, I'm in a comfortable bubble right now with the military because I have all these resources to help me continue to improve my own ability as far as rehabilitation goes. Once my time has come and I leave, if I continue to act like this and be this guy who loves life, am I going to be limited now through Veterans Affairs or any other program afterwards because there's a limit on how much money they can put out? This is where I have a bit of difficulty because some members in the system are abusing it. I don't want to say they don't deserve it but maybe they don't put forth as much effort as they should in order to be given one of these legs or something.

Therefore that money, $80,000, comes out of that pond, which means guys like me—and there are lots of guys like me—who want to have something that could benefit them and encourage them to progress further, now can't because of the almighty dollar.

[Frank Valeriote, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

You mentioned being engaged in co-op education, furthering your education and gaining some skills for a new job. I remember hearing about Helmets to Hardhats several years ago. It was lauded as a wonderful program, and I had all sorts of people coming in speaking to me. I complimented the government on presenting that program until I learned that a very meagre amount of money was put into it. I think $100,000 is the number I heard most recently, which is a completely inadequate response to the need to help with skills training.

Could you talk to us about your expectations for help from government sources to help you transition into a new job with skills training?

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

With regard to Helmets to Hardhats, I'm not too familiar with it but I do understand the program and the idea behind it. I don't think it's just how much money you can throw at it. I think it's providing the opportunity and the knowledge to our serving members that there is a life after this career.

I think the companies and businesses out there that can provide these opportunities need an incentive per se, to help encourage these members not only to reach out but be reached by these companies to gain that employment and that experience for a skilled trade, maybe a tax rebate or some incentive of that sort to these small businesses or large companies that want to hire our military members or veterans and retirees. I think that would be a good way to start.

But being a fairly new concept, I think it's going to take time, and change doesn't happen overnight. It takes a lot of encouragement and patience.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much for that.

We now—

Mr. Valeriote, is that...?

[A voice]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

I didn't want to leave it that way. I knew we'd have a bad night.

Mr. Hayes, please, you have six minutes.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You have an unbelievable attitude, great attitude. That's what got you through. I think your daughter got you through. I read the articles. I'm not sure I would have survived, but had I been in your position, I would have wished I'd had children at that time because they would have gotten me through as well. That's just so cool.

I want to understand a little more about your transition plan. When do you release exactly? Is that date known to you?

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

No. I'm still waiting for a report back from DMCA, or D Med Pol, I think it is. They are the ones who tell you, yes, here is your final date, and you can attest it or ask for more time.

So they're usually the ones who tell you when your release date is. I'm still two to two and a half years out.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Does that fall in line with the universality of service, which basically dictates that you need to be able to pass the physical fitness test, etc., in order to be deployed again in the event you have to be deployed?

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

Absolutely.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Do you believe in the universality of service, or...? I'm interested in your thoughts on that.

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

To some extent I do, absolutely, because every trade is different. No offence to our logistics trade or anything like that, but they are not of the same mentality as our infanteers, nor is our air force in the same capacity as our artillery guys.

Depending on the job or the trade you're interested in staying in, or maybe doing an occupational transfer to, I think the universality of service needs to be a bare minimum for everyone to be able to achieve. If you wish to stay in a combat role of sorts, then obviously the expectations have to be raised a little bit higher.

Everyone needs to realize that. That's not just in the military. It's throughout life. If you can't make it, you can't make it, you know? It just is.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Mr. Valeriote mentioned the Helmets to Hardhats program. Are you aware that there is also a training program available to go back to university or college that makes $75,800 available towards your education? Are you aware of that?

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

Is this through SISIP?

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

No, this is through Veterans Affairs.

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

Actually, yes; I think SISIP helps me out with my education two years prior to release, and then Veterans Affairs carries on and picks up whatever is remaining, if there are any more years of schooling expected afterwards.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Yes. It's a new program that was recently announced.

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

I just didn't know what the amount was.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

I want to back up for one second and go back to your case manager, just for clarity. You have a case manager now. Is that through DND or is that through Veterans Affairs?

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

It's through DND, but she's a civilian employee up on the base. She used to be a medic a number of years ago. Then she got this job as the case worker up on the base.

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Right on.

You mentioned a great truth, that every case is different. I wonder if through your experience...because you've obviously heard from many of the injured veterans you've worked with regarding the service and support they have received from DND, or perhaps under the new Veterans Charter.

Does anything stand out from those veterans you have spoken with in terms of what improvements they would like to see with regard to the service that has been provided to them, or perhaps what their frustrations may have been with the lack of service provided to them?

[Sgt Bjarne Nielsen]

That's a tough one, because again, everyone's case is different, right? Maybe they went in and saw my case manager but were having a bad day and couldn't make any headway with her. Then maybe another day they went in and saw her and were having a better day and could make things happen. Maybe when I talked to them it was in between those two days. The perspective on a conversation as such could be different depending on when you talk to them. Maybe some of those issues were remedied after I had talked to them.

As I mention to a lot of my peers and a lot of my friends, it's not the place to go and start yelling at people. Regardless of whether you have PTSD or a physical injury and you're having a bad day or whatever, if you are seeking someone's assistance, you don't bite the hand that feeds, right?

[Bryan Hayes, Conservative, Sault Ste. Marie, ON]

Yes.

I just want to close with a comment that you made, again specific to your great attitude. You state that you have to bring 51% and the government and others provide 49%. That is a phenomenal attitude. I would suggest that in this world of veterans and military life, if everybody had your attitude, I think we would all be in a better place.

I want to thank you for appearing today. Thanks very much.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

We'll now turn to Mr. Rafferty, please, for six minutes.