Evidence of meeting #18 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was you're.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bjarne Nielsen  As an Individual
Heather Nielsen  As an Individual
Jerry Kovacs  Director, Canadian Veterans Advocacy
Michael Blais  President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy
Sylvain Chartrand  Director, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

I want to pick this up, because what he demonstrated so succinctly was his motivation. What I learned was that I would ask a patient if they wanted to do something, and if they were motivated and wanted to do it badly enough, I could tell them I didn't think they would ever be able to do that and they would darn well turn around and prove me wrong. I learned that early in my practice.

I want to say that you demonstrate that so clearly.

I want to suggest that Veterans Affairs and the Canadian Armed Forces could headhunt to try to find someone to help mentor people in recovery, and they'd never find anybody better than this gentleman, who has lived through it and who has the motivation.

I would suggest that if you get your financial training, wherever you want to go, then I'll make the recommendation to the committee—although I'm not a regular member—that they keep your resume on hand with your address and your phone number. They would be very wise to hire this gentleman and keep him, because you'll never find a better advocate or a better example.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

Royal Galipeau Conservative Ottawa—Orléans, ON

You're going to get 10 letters of reference right here.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Dr. Lunney, I totally agree with you, but you have less than two minutes now to ask your question.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC

Two minutes...? Well, I think he has very capably represented himself.

You're water-skiing and you're going to the North Pole. These things that you're doing are just tremendous. You're a tremendous example in what you're doing. I would suggest that if it's in your heart to mentor other soldiers and help them with their financial commitments, they're not going to hear it from anybody better than someone who's lived through it as you have. That option is perhaps one that you would want to keep in mind and that I hope everybody here will want to keep in mind for you in the military. Frankly, I think it would be a tremendous loss to our government and to the military, if we don't find a way to keep you engaged in working with soldiers in one capacity or another.

I want to mention that there is another program—there are 30 seconds left—for hiring veterans for other departments in the government. If you're capable of writing this well as an infantryman, and being a MacGyver—a plumber, an electrician, and a “glue your own socket back together” man—there has to be a role for you in the government. We need you.

I'll just leave it at that.

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Thank you very much, Mr. Lunney.

Sergeant Nielsen, you've heard the comments. I didn't see you turn totally sad when it was suggested you might want to join government. That may not be the option you want to take, but I'll tell you this. We want to recommend that you come back every year.

4:40 p.m.

Sgt Bjarne Nielsen

Thank you.

4:40 p.m.

Some hon. members

Hear, hear!

4:40 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

We will suspend for about five minutes.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

We will reconvene. We're continuing the study on the new Veterans Charter.

I want to remind members of the committee that we're having a very brief business meeting at the end so I would ask you to stay and we'll go through that quite quickly.

I'm glad to see you all here. Mr. Chartrand, I'm very glad you made it. We weren't sure you were going to be able to make it this afternoon, so we're pleased to see you.

Mr. Blais, again, it's nice to see you.

Mr. Kovacs, it's always interesting to see you here.

4:50 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

March 27th, 2014 / 4:50 p.m.

Jerry Kovacs Director, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Thank you very much. We are very pleased to be here this afternoon.

4:50 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Yes.

This is Canadian Veterans Advocacy. You all know the format. We have a presentation that I assume one of you is going to make on your behalf and then we do the rounds of questions.

Thank you for attending and we look forward to your comments, please.

4:50 p.m.

Michael Blais President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Thank you.

Good afternoon. Thank you for inviting the Canadian Veterans Advocacy to testify before parliamentary committee today. We are grateful.

My name is Michael Blais. I am the president and founder of the Canadian Veterans Advocacy. Accompanying me today are Director Sylvain Chartrand and Director Jerry Kovacs. During the question and answer period, Director Chartrand will respond to queries in reference to the statistical analysis on the new Veterans Charter and the Pension Act, and the plight of Canada's wounded reservists. Director Kovacs will respond to the issues identified through the ongoing consultation that we have presented as solutions through our harmonization proposals.

We have provided written documentation that clearly defines the CVA's harmonization proposals. I would note that the CVA principles are defined through extensive consultation within Canada's veteran and military communities. The message that I bring to you today represents the voices of thousands of veterans who have served in all areas; their families; Canada's Memorial Cross mothers, fathers, and widows; and far too many serving members who, in the aftermath of the war in Afghanistan or service in former Yugoslavia, Haiti, and Africa, will soon become Veterans Affairs' responsibility.

There are several issues worthy of discussion; many are complex. I would reaffirm the CVA support in principle for Ombudsman Parent's report. We are very concerned about the state of poverty many disabled veterans will confront after age 65 and the lack of recognition and comprehensive support for veterans suffering from environmental contaminations such as Agent Orange, depleted uranium, or the profoundly disturbing consequences of emerging mental wounds.

I will conform to the committee's mandate, however, and focus on three issues of concern.

Reservists.... I am pleased to note that this is one issue where consensus has been reached within the veterans community. To that end, I will request that you fulfill your obligation to the thousands of reservists who have been summoned and who have offered great sacrifice on behalf of this nation, not only in Afghanistan but in many areas of the globe wherein the threat of both physical and mental violence was, and perhaps is, a clear and present danger. Why is the leg of a reservist worth less than the leg of a regular force member, when both were catastrophically injured in the same incident? Or two legs? Or two legs and an arm?

I would speak to Corporal William Kerr, whom I have assisted as an advocate. Tracy Kerr and her family are now responsible for ensuring Canada's only surviving triple amputee's quality of life is assured. They too have been called upon to offer great sacrifice. Mrs. Kerr needs your help. There must be equality, recognition of sacrifice, understanding, and compassion dictated by need. Need, not budgetary restraint....

I am obliged to speak to the adverse issues our war widows and mothers and fathers of men and women, unmarried, who have offered the ultimate sacrifice to this nation.... I am profoundly saddened to note that there are Memorial Cross widows, such as Mrs. Joan Larocque, who have been excluded and consigned to an existence far below the $40,000 poverty threshold that this government deems necessary to provide the basic necessities of life: food, shelter, and clothing. All Memorial Cross widows, regardless of the time when their loved ones passed, must be accorded the new Veterans Charter earnings loss benefit, particularly those who are living beneath the poverty threshold. We must also include the VIP services for them. The two-year restrictive window on vocational training must be waived, and the opportunities for vocational assistance extended indefinitely.

I'd also speak to the plight of parents of unmarried fatalities, and suggest, with all due respect, that their profound sacrifice to Canada be formally acknowledged through the provision of VAC pain and suffering awards in addition to the Memorial Cross.

Why are they excluded when they were identified as the primary next of kin? Should they not be treated with the same level of respect as any other primary dependant, the widows and the children?

Finally, I would address the most contentious issue, the pain and suffering quotient of the new Veterans Charter. This issue, without question, defines the sacred obligation. It is the very essence of the sacred obligation—a contract, a social contract, with Canada's sons and daughters sent into harm's way. The award is unique, separate from income replacement programs such as SISIP and ELB, or the many service-related provisions provided, depending on the veteran's needs.

We have commissioned an unbiased, strictly statistical analysis of the Pension Act and NVC, and have submitted our conclusions to the committee. Unequivocally, the pension plan provided better compensation and more services to disabled veterans than does the new Veterans Charter.

That being said, we have a sacred obligation to those who we as an advocacy would serve. Our duty is clear, and we must respond with all due diligence. We must accept the fact that the concept of the lump sum award is appealing to veterans approaching the twilight of their years, or younger veterans who have dreams and require the funds to build the foundation of a new life beyond transition, beyond military service. We must also be cognizant of the wounded in Afghanistan, supported through the Equitas Society's quest for equality, and the court-inspired questions particularly in reference to the sacred obligation, the social contract that has been raised.

How do we as a nation reconcile the divergences between generational desires? How do we as a nation create mechanisms that will satisfy the needs of veterans of all generations without weighing one generation's needs over another's?

Today the Canadian Veterans Advocacy will provide you with a solution to this complicated dilemma, a solution that will respect the most sacred obligation Canada bears for all generations of veterans. We propose harmonization and the option of choice, choice between a respect-driven lump sum award and the Pension Act.

With regard to the lump sum award, Canadian Veterans Advocacy acknowledges the voices of those who would prefer a lump sum award. What we do not acknowledge or support is the current level of financial compensation, or the new Veterans Charter's practice of excluding spouse and children. Nor do we agree with or support the Royal Canadian Legion or the many prominent veteran organizations they have united under the banner of the consultation group on this issue. They would propose solutions that compare the sacrifice of Major Mark Campbell—whose legs were explosively amputated, who suffered serious internal injuries, including the loss of a testicle, who has a brain stem injury and complex PTSD—with the plight of a civilian awarded legal damages due to negligence at the workplace in Ontario.

This is unconscionable. There is no comparison. The sacred obligation is not accorded to a litigant in a lawsuit. The sacred obligation is reserved for Canadians who have sworn allegiance to this great nation, who have borne arms in our name and bled in battle, who have suffered in peace with unwavering loyalty and offered great sacrifice while treading in harm's way in Canada's name.

Clearly the compensation quotient of the lump sum award must reflect and respect the sacrifice borne. Surely we are obligated not only to the wounded but also, as provided in the Pension Act, yet denied in the NVC, to the spouses and the children who were here today, those whose lives have been catastrophically affected by their father's or mother's service-related physical and mental disability.

CVA proposes, for those who wish to choose the option of the lump sum award, that a 100% disabled veteran be awarded a tax-free lump sum of $1.5 million; that there be a supplementary lump sum award for a wife in recognition of her sacrifice, of $250,000; and that there be a supplementary pension award for the children in recognition of their sacrifice, of $50,000 per child. Conversely, those who would prefer to embrace the Pension Act provisions would be free to do so for a modernized program that would harmonize the Pension Act provisions with the new Veterans Charter opportunities.

Thank you for inviting the Canadian Veterans Advocacy to speak to these issues. We pray that our words have inspired the spirit of our nation within you, and that you will indeed craft legislation that is comprehensive and that will restore, not ignore, that will embrace, not replace, the sacred obligation that we—you, I, and all Canadians—bear for those who stand on guard for thee with true patriot love.

Thank you.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Thank you very much, Mr. Blais.

We'll now go to the rounds of questions.

Mr. Stoffer, we'll start with you, please. You have six minutes.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Mr. Blais, Jerry, and Sylvain, thank you very much for coming. I want to personally thank you, and on behalf of all of us, actually, for your continued advocacy, not just for the men and women who serve our country but for their families as well. It's very much appreciated as well by those families who contact me.

Michael, if I may use your first name, you mentioned—and you are correct—that if a person receives a lump sum and little else after that, then the old system is much better. There's no question about that.

But when the new Veterans Charter was initiated, the lump sum was an initial payment for pain and suffering to assist that person in any initial unforeseen cost that they might have at that specific time. In being disabled, in missing an arm or a leg or whatever, other programs, like the permanent impairment allowance and the earnings loss benefit, were to follow. The problem we're finding is that in many cases for those veterans who applied for those two additional payments, which would have made it better than the old system, they didn't receive those benefits or they had to fight really hard and long in order to receive those types of benefits.

If indeed a recommendation from you or if this committee were to go to the government to push them to move much more generously, as the new Veterans Charter was initially advertised—not sold but advertised—in regard to the fact that the generosity of the additional programs would be in place for those most seriously injured veterans.... Would you agree or like to see that or help us recommend...? What would you suggest to us to put in a report to state very clearly that those additional payments should be made forthwith without much hesitation?

5:05 p.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

I think what's important is that we separate the earnings loss and the other benefits that are provided from the pain and suffering award. The pain and suffering award is unique. It is the definitive explanation of the demonstration of patriotic spirit to which this nation has committed.

Now, you have brought up very interesting things, such as the permanent impairment allowance. Many of you have seen me. I'm not eligible. My pension is 30%. That's the problem. When we go forward, we're always underbid. You must have a certain percentage point even in order to qualify for permanent impairment allowance. I'm on a scooter. I get 30%. I don't qualify. How many more are like me? You've all seen me walking around. You know I'm crippled. How many more...?

I think that first of all we must differentiate the pay and suffering award from all other programs, whether it's the Pension Act or the new Veterans Charter, because there were very positive programs within the Pension Act, you know, that were replicated within the new Veterans Charter. I'd also like to say that there are positive things in the new Veterans Charter. The fact that thousands of people slipped through the cracks, apparently, on SISIP and needed this supplementary help is indicative of the fact that there was a problem. It's indicative that the government responded. It's indicative that everyone agreed that it was a problem, and hence it was passed forward.

But let us not confuse the sacred obligation with the obligation you have to replace income supplements, to acknowledge permanent injuries, and to provide vocational care. These are all good things, but they're expected good things. They're the same things that were provided by SISIP and are now replicated by Veterans Affairs.

5:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

I have a last point for you before I get cut off as well. The Veterans Bill of Rights is a separate sort of document that is not really legally binding in any way. In another meeting, the ombudsman told us that he would like to see the Veterans Bill of Rights enshrined in the new Veterans Charter. I personally take responsibility because there is no preamble in the charter, such as the whereases and all of that.

Would you agree that the Veterans Bill of Rights should be included in the new Veterans Charter, as well as some form of language that mentions—this is regardless of government, because this document has to continue on for an incredibly long time with reviews and amendments as we go along—that there is a moral and/or social obligation on behalf of the Canadian government, and on behalf of its people, to those who we ask to put themselves in harm's way? Would you like to see something of that nature?

5:10 p.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

I would indeed.

We present bills, we come forward with great fanfare. The Veterans Bill of Rights, we're going to stand up for the lads, we're providing, yet we don't legislate them. I could extend that to the office of the Veterans Ombudsman as well. He should be legislated. He should be reporting to Parliament, not the minister.

We have issues here where, yes, it's a great thing, but at the end of the day a lot of them are headlines without substance. If we're not willing as a nation to abide by the Veterans Bill of Rights, then it's a headline without substance.

How do we change that? Legislation, enshrinement—make it happen so that those rights are inalienable, deserved, and perpetual.

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS

Thank you, sir.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr

Thank you very much.

Mr. Gill, please, you have six minutes.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also want to thank our witnesses for appearing before the committee and helping us with this important study.

I have a whole bunch of questions so I hope you'll keep your answers brief.

Can each of you tell us briefly about your service, where you might have served, and the medals that you have been honoured with? Can you share that information with the committee?

5:10 p.m.

Sylvain Chartrand Director, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

I went to Cyprus in 1990, and Bosnia in 1993. I've got a CD, a Bosnia medal, a peacekeeping medal, a Cyprus, and a Queen's Diamond Jubilee Medal. I served 21 years in the reserves.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Parm Gill Conservative Brampton—Springdale, ON

Thank you.

5:10 p.m.

President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Michael Blais

I served in Cyprus, did two tours in NATO peacekeeping or NATO cold war activities in Germany, a peacekeeping medal, 12 years undetected crime.

5:10 p.m.

Director, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Jerry Kovacs

I'd be delighted to provide you with the written response to your question. I'd appreciate a question on a veterans' issue or any of the three issues the minister has asked us to talk about today.