Evidence of meeting #21 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charter.
A recording is available from Parliament.
7:15 p.m.
Founder and National President, Veterans of Canada
Then you have your own mirror version of the medical review board.
7:15 p.m.
Founder and National President, Veterans of Canada
Yes.
But then they're not going to be as busy because only the veterans who are out would be going through the new medical review board. That's an evidence-based system, where you provide a proper claim in the first place, prepared for you and with you by a claims processor.
7:15 p.m.
Retired Captain (Air Force), Advocate and Journalist, As an Individual
Just a quick one to add, the ombudsman came forward in a recent proposal that as soon as a member joins the forces a VAC file is opened up on him. That medical file becomes shared between the two departments.
I would add to that—here's another wish list—rather than us fighting for veterans benefits and costing during times of restraint, why don't we start setting aside money for a member when he joins? We know how to cost tanks, we know how to cost planes, but we don't know how to cost disability. I'm sure that any number of private firms would help us with actuarial analysis and have us put aside that money so we never have to go through these battles again during times of restraint.
7:15 p.m.
As an Individual
I would like to add to that. When the agreement was made that currently serving members of the Canadian Forces would be able to draw disability benefits while they were in, there was an agreement between National Defence and Veterans Affairs that National Defence would do all the work for the first-line application, and as soon as the bill was passed, it fell through because National Defence doesn't have the resources.
7:15 p.m.
President, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones
One issue on what Harold just talked about, the best tool that you have may be attaching DND medical with VAC medical. I don't think it's been mentioned here, but a lot of those issues may very well have been corrupt in the way that people were collecting pensions when they went in and said that they couldn't do this because they needed this filled out for the disability form, and then turned around and wanted a G202 medical to say that they were fit. I'm not saying it was rampant, but for sure it's there. This may curb having that happen when a person joins.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Some people do game any system, that's just human nature.
7:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
Okay, we've reached the end of the time on that questioning.
We're going to Mr. Stoffer for the last six minutes, please.
7:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Again to the four of you who are here and to all the veterans in the room, thank you for your presence and thank you for your tremendous presentations. I'm blown away every time we have veterans come before us. Their families give tremendous advice to us, and we'll take you very seriously in a cooperative manner with my colleagues across the way.
Don, a very quick question to you. For the first one, the Canadian Bill of Rights that's out there is basically a document hanging in halls. It really has no legislative teeth. One of the problems we have is there's no preamble of the new charter. In your estimate, should the bill of rights be included in the new Veterans Charter, in our review?
7:15 p.m.
Founder and National President, Veterans of Canada
I have to say yes. In 2006 when it came out, I thought we had something there.
7:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Yes, sir, I appreciate that. Thank you.
Mr. Bruyea, thank you again for your presentation, and again your thoughtfulness toward these recommendations is truly tremendous.
On the earnings loss benefit, which we've heard repeatedly, it's 75% taxable, but we've heard conflicting evidence. Should it be 100% taxable, or should it be 75% non-taxable? Seventy-five percent non-taxable is better than 100% taxable. But in your opinion should it be taxed at all, or should it be 75% or 100%?
7:15 p.m.
Retired Captain (Air Force), Advocate and Journalist, As an Individual
You're absolutely right, Mr. Stoffer. In terms of dignity, non-taxable would be better. However, that does cause a problem. We do have fiscal realities that if it's earnings lost, and we have to deduct other earnings against it, it's hard to deduct taxable earnings from non-taxable benefits.
7:15 p.m.
Retired Captain (Air Force), Advocate and Journalist, As an Individual
So I would compromise and say, 100% taxable, and that way we can see taxes to the government, which is what they're looking for right now.
7:15 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Very good.
Bob, I just want to bring greetings. Mr. Kerr and I both know this gentleman, Noel Knockwood, who is a Mi'kmaq elder from Nova Scotia, and a Korean veteran, and he's still with us, thank God. I'm sure if he was here now, he'd want to wish you his aboriginal greetings from the Mi'kmaq territory of Nova Scotia.
Sir, you brought up a very good point about communication, and it's something we don't think of very often, those extreme rural communities where veterans would be, in the far north, in the high provinces, on reserves. I'd like to just give you a minute, if you don't mind, because I have a question for Harold. How can we better improve the communication of information from government to those first nations people in order that they can get the information they so desperately need in order to access the benefits they deserve?
7:20 p.m.
President, Aboriginal Veterans Autochtones
I mentioned two organizations.
The Canadian Army that deals with the north...and that is one of the populations that we've forgotten about in all of our talks. I did have a good conversation with ITK, the executive director there, and that was one of his concerns as well. We're talking about Canadian Rangers now, who have served in the north for years and have done an outstanding job doing that. Finally, they came under the umbrella of the Canadian Army, which to me means they're going to be looked after better.
Now we have to make sure that the information that they so need, and maybe they don't necessarily know that it's out there, is available. So we have to make sure that government is transparent in making sure communication gets out, whether it's through, as I said, the Department of National Defence—the Canadian Armed Forces going into the communities as they do—or recruiters going into communities, whatever.
The other issue may very well be tying in, as best we can, with both the Assembly of First Nations and with the aboriginal veterans groups such as ours that deal with the first nations veterans of Canada. Computers are not the answer.
7:20 p.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Thank you, sir.
Harold, the final question is to you, sir.
Thank you very much for coming here from B.C. today. I'm sorry for what you're going through with your ongoing concern, but I appreciate your steadfastness in dealing with that issue.
Sir, we can have the greatest charter or the greatest set of standards for veterans that we wish, but if you don't have access to it, if you have to fight tooth and nail to get it, if you have to have this document and that document.... And as I heard the other day, a double amputee should never have to fill out a form—I thought that was a great one. One of the biggest problems I found with the charter is getting access to the benefits. You can get a lump sum, but you can't get PIA or ELB. You have to fight, and fight, and fight, and you have to fight with the Veterans Review and Appeal Board to get that.
We all sit here and give you the gold-plated charter plan, and it means nothing if you have to fight with that VRAB in order to get it. So I'd just like your view on that, being a former VRAB member yourself. How can we improve that entity so they actually listen to what you're saying, what we hope to say, and make it easier and more accessible for veterans and their families—and RCMP members, for that matter, but that's a separate thing—to get access to the programs?
7:20 p.m.
NDP
7:20 p.m.
As an Individual
It comes down fundamentally to what my presentation was about.
7:20 p.m.
As an Individual
People are not following the spirit and intent of the legislation.
7:20 p.m.
As an Individual
They're not following from the charter on down with this new Veterans Charter. Access is so simple. When I first joined the board, hearings were 10 minutes. We would give an introductory comment, and we'd say what's missing. What's missing is your link to service, or we don't have a diagnosis. It's that simple. We're all supposed to be working together. The legislation is written in a way that you should have access, except for contradictory evidence. But the way the adjudicators are trained now is the complete opposite. As I say, you don't need all these medical files.
The veterans legislation was written to be non-adversarial. The process was written to be non-adversarial. It's the only one in Canada, and it has to stay that way. I can't imagine having government lawyers on the other side, and people battling to give these guys their due. The Bureau of Pensions Advocates was developed in the 1930s because the government and the people of Canada thought it was horrible that World War I veterans and Boer War veterans would have to pay out of their own pocket to hire lawyers to get their disability benefits. Now here we are in 2014, and we have veterans paying out of their own pockets to take the system to Federal Court because the system is broken. We should be having Bureau of Pensions Advocates' lawyers represent veterans at Federal Court.