Evidence of meeting #37 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was team.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Having done it three times, I can tell you those are three of the best things I've ever done in my life. It's just spectacular.
If anybody gets a chance—
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
The other two Nijmegens.
If anybody gets the chance to do it, even to go there for one day and do it, just the feeling of the people around you.... On the victory march, there are a million people there and they're all cheering. As the general said, when the Canadian flag goes by, when Canadians go by, the noise goes up several notches, the shouts of, “Thank you, Canada; thank you for our freedom”, that sort of thing. It's very cool.
I have a couple of questions. At the risk of being a tiny bit practical, you talked about the feet. Of course, it's all about the feet. We have a significant medical contingent that goes along with us. One of the things we learn, if you can talk about that a little bit, is something practical, like the care and feeding of the feet.
What do we learn there, and what do we exchange with our international partners?
Brigadier-General, Department of National Defence
One of the keys to being successful at Nijmegen is the training. Part of that training is making sure we have the right socks and footwear, the right system on our feet to serve us well. Not every person likes to wear the same things on their feet. People are different. But whatever you end up using to train with is what you need to stick with.
We've had people who have done 1,000 kilometres in training, and that includes back-to-back 40-kilometre marches as the final confirmation before they go. Everything is good to go. They get over there, and they hear about some other way another contingent might be doing things. There are certain techniques we may use to tape our feet—again, to provide that protection, that extra layer to protect us against blisters. Then when we change something, deciding there might be a better idea, the next thing you know, our feet are hamburger. You learn to trust your training, trust your leadership. When they say don't change a thing, make sure you do that.
We have learned new taping techniques for our feet from the Dutch. All of our medics are trained to do it now. We actually have a video of it, so it's something we'll maintain corporate knowledge of as we go forward.
I did not have my feet taped in training, but we never did four days in a row at 40 kilometres a day in training. The advice is to tape them the proper way, and off you go. The tape basically stayed on for those four days. I would shower in it. We would soak our feet. You saw in the ambassador's video a pair of feet soaking in a pool of water. I don't know whose feet those were. They both had painted toenails, I noticed, so they weren't his and they weren't mine.
However, I would leave that tape on. I'd put plastic bags over my feet, while I was soaking them at least. I had the temperature of the cooler water to help the swelling go down. But I went with the tape. We learned a lot about foot care.
In today's modern army, we tend to drive everywhere we go. We have LAVs and tanks. We have vehicles. But the light infantry still march. I think every soldier should still be able to march, and long distances would be a good thing. I think it's very important from that perspective.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Sol Rolingher is a close personal friend. His mistake was that he changed what he did in the march from what he did in his training.
Brigadier-General, Department of National Defence
Yes, it was unfortunate.
Conservative
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Yes, he did.
I think you probably know this story, General. There's one grave off to the side in Groesbeek. There's one grave over by the fence.
Brigadier-General, Department of National Defence
I know only a little bit about it. Mr. Jones could tell this story much better than I can.
There was a Canadian who was hired to look after the Groesbeek cemetery, and he did so for 40 years or something.
Brigadier-General, Department of National Defence
Yes.
Obviously, a cemetery like that is reserved for the war dead, but he had made an arrangement, I'm not sure through who, to authorize his burial there.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
I can't remember the story about who actually made the presentation or the request, but it was a request through the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. They made a special dispensation because he had been so involved.
The fondest wish of the guy who is currently tending that cemetery is to be hit by a falling tree on the site so that he can be buried there too. Now I don't know; I assume he's still there—
Conservative
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Brigadier-General and Sergeant, thank you so much. Frankly, I'd never heard of Nijmegen until it was discussed at this committee.
I've had the opportunity to march. I've never been part of the forces. I didn't grow up in that culture. But as an MP, I've had the opportunity to march with our Legion members. I've had the opportunity to march with Minister Fantino towards the Menin Gate when we were there together last year. There is an incredible therapeutic effect to marching; it's a solidarity, a feeling of oneness—not so much accomplishment, although having marched for those many days, I'm sure there's a feeling of accomplishment in that sense.
I think about our veterans. I think about our veterans who are suffering from PTSD and other invisible injuries, and about their feeling of being not part of anything anymore.
In the States, they've labelled it sanctuary syndrome; you're in this unit together all the time, for months or years, and all of a sudden you're cut free, and you're on your own. There is a consequence to that. I don't know if any studies have been done. I'm going to ask you that. But I imagine there's a therapeutic effect for veterans who are able to march again, to be part of a contingent, feeling part of that group, that solidarity.
Based on that premise—and I would ask you to address, number one, the possibility of it being a helpful therapeutic effect—can you tell me how many veterans, Sergeant, are invited over? How many come through Wounded Warriors? I thank them for that.
Could we be doing more to help our veterans and support those that are suffering? Might it help them in their recovery to participate as veterans?
What is the cost to participate in this if you're a veteran? I assume it's not free. I assume there's some fee that has to be paid. Can you discuss that in general for us so that, as a committee, we can perhaps look at some ways of helping our veterans, those who are suffering, to get there, and to participate in something so very therapeutic?
Brigadier-General, Department of National Defence
I'll start and then I'll pass it over to you.
Absolutely, there is value in walking.
One of our teammates was a doctor. One day he said to me, “If you could be given a prescription for something that would give you longer life, better feeling, lower cholesterol, and on and on, would you take it?” I said, “Yes, absolutely. Where's the pill?” He said, “Well, it's walking.” Whether it's one hour a day, or whatever, it's great for you physically, emotionally, mentally, and all around. So I would think that for anyone to march in any circumstances is a good thing.
I know we give an opportunity to veterans at ceremonial occasions where they do form a group. You've seen them at Remembrance Day parades, and so on, where they get to march, again depending on the age. Some people think of veterans as the World War II veterans or the Korean War veterans; not anymore.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Royal Galipeau
Mr. Stoffer, what you have to say is important, but not as important as what he has to say.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Royal Galipeau
But I need to listen. After that, I'd like to hear what you're sharing.
Go ahead, General.
Brigadier-General, Department of National Defence
Definitely, there are positive effects. I would love to see veteran participation.
At it stands now, the majority of the contingent is made up of military members who are still serving, including the Soldier On guys. The only non-military members are those that we invite, such as VIPs of some type.
Could we have veterans who are no longer serving? I think we could.
Again, it comes down to the physical condition of the veteran. It's a challenge, obviously, to do something like this. But if we could have a veteran team, it would be amazing. I'm not aware of any studies that have formally said that to help healing and therapeutically, it is a good thing. Intuitively, I share your view that it would be, but I can't really say it more conclusively than that.
Perhaps Sergeant, you could talk about the therapeutic aspect, and the participation of Soldier On and how we recruit for that. I can talk about the cost alone.
