Evidence of meeting #40 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was civilian.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
That's correct. He's a corporal and we served in the same platoon in Afghanistan. He was medically released for post-traumatic stress disorder and is in that program. The one piece I would like to bring up, and I actually agree with Mr. Leonardo on this, is that the sooner we can get that education started the better off veterans with be. He was one of those reservists who had to wait a few years to get started in the program. If he could have started with that education sooner, before his release, I think he would have been in a much better position. That's perhaps where we can make some more improvements.
Conservative
Laurie Hawn Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB
Absolutely, and I think that's a good place where we can move forward.
You went to university. Now with all due respect to BScs and BAs out there, they don't often lead to really good jobs. You've gone beyond that. You're more specialized and that's good. What's your view of...?
I mean, $75,800 is not just for university; it's for any training. Particularly in Alberta where I'm from, trades training is pretty important. Can you give your opinion on the ability of a soldier to use the $75,800 for university or any other trades training and the value of that flexibility?
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
My colleague did trades training. It paid for more than just his schooling, but his expenses as well.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Similarly, gentlemen, thank you for your service and for coming up here and speaking to us about this important matter.
Mr. Leonardo, I think the point you're trying to make is your perception that some people are gaining access to the education programs while others, who you feel ought to have had access, are denied access to that education program. It's not often that I would agree with Mr. Hawn, but he did use the words “qualify for the program”. Even coming out of high school doesn't mean you automatically qualify to go to college or university. So, would you agree that that program should be available to those who qualify and would otherwise have been able to to university or college, rather than automatically enrolling in the education?
Founder and National President, Veterans Canada
We used to have a saying in the military, “Did it, done it, got the t-shirt”. While the theory is nice, I qualified for university. In fact, in my testing through CanVet, the organization in Calgary that you go to for testing to see if you can go back to a rehabilitation program and education, I came in the top 2% of the testing in Canada. I went to Mount Royal University, but I couldn't do a degree program.
Founder and National President, Veterans Canada
Because they said I wasn't allowed to do one.
Founder and National President, Veterans Canada
Veterans Affairs Canada. So I was taking courses within Mount Royal until they kicked me out because of my PTSD. I was taking courses but they would not let me do a degree program.
Founder and National President, Veterans Canada
They told me that reason was that it's only a two-year program. A degree program isn't two years. Tim could finish it because he had already started it. I was starting fresh in university and I could not do a four-year program. So it's a thing called “Did it, done it, got the t-shirt”.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Okay. Are you telling me there are other people like you that qualify, but were not given the opportunity?
Founder and National President, Veterans Canada
If there's one, there are many.
Founder and National President, Veterans Canada
I can't give you other names. I'll give you my name.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
All right, and if you find other names would you please bring them to the attention of the committee.
For the record I happen to agree with you on your third recommendation that veterans mortgage life insurance ought to be guaranteed, or made available, because it appears to me that in many cases veterans would have qualified for that life insurance, but for their service. I think we're not honouring our sacred covenant if we can't step up and make sure veterans would qualify for that life insurance.
Mr. Laidler, you had some success using the program, but you also said you know that's not always the case for other veterans.
Can you tell us about other veterans for whom that was not the case who you know of, specifically others that may have qualified but weren't given those benefits.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
Sure. The one person I can think of, maintaining confidentiality, was a 21-year-old reservist from my regiment who went overseas to Afghanistan, was injured, came home, and had a knee injury I believe.
He was able to have his contract extended. He was going to be paid full time while he was undergoing treatment, but he was required to report to the unit to do paperwork and things like that throughout the week. It was quite a commute for him to get there.
Going through the process within DND he felt fed up and stressed out by the program. He said that he didn't want to deal with it, and left. That was the last time any of us saw him.
We hear reports that he's okay and everything, but he has just gone off on his own. He has not applied for Veterans Affairs benefits that we know of. He has not accessed any services. That's the sort of stoic military culture that exists.
That is the most common type of veteran out there right now: somebody who had just gone on and done it themselves. I would predict we would see those people coming back, down the road, if they are not getting support and not being successful.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
I would describe those people as the ones who are falling through the cracks. They're the ones to whom some assistance may have been offered, but not enough attention has been given to them. I think many of us around this table have pushed for programs that would try and to find those people, to reach out to them. I don't believe there are enough services available to help prevent them from falling through the cracks.
From 20,000 feet I came into this portfolio, and I see many civilian, not-for-profit groups like your own—Wounded Warrior, Canada Company, Veterans Transition Network—that are trying to fill gaps that ought not to exist, that government ought to be filling itself.
This is one of those gaps. Goodness, you guys provide great services, but we need a more robust program that would offer better transition services so that veterans do not have to rely on you, but would have those services available right from the government.
Tim, could you make recommendations to us right now on how some of those gaps could be filled, and identify where they are, and what needs to be done to fill them.
Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network
Absolutely. The Veterans Transition Network was filling a gap. The government now pays us $15,000 per veteran. We created a solution. The government saw that as a success. This committee made the recommendations. Within nine months the minister made that announcement.
That's one case example. There's a Send Up The Count organization that's doing similar things. If there are ways the government can come in and help fund those solutions that already exist out there, and help support them, that's how I think we're going to get to a place we all want to be.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Royal Galipeau
Thank you very much, Mr. Laidler.
I'd like to ask members of the committee, as they feel they are getting closer to the end of their time, to look at the Chair and his signals and his anxieties, because you have good questions. Make the questions shorter so you can get more information in the answers.
Mr. Rafferty, we're waiting for you.
Conservative
Conservative
Pierre Lemieux Conservative Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
Thank you, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today and participating in this study.
I have a slightly different model than I think Mr. Valeriote does. I feel the government has a primary and key role to play in the provision of services to veterans, but I certainly think that other organizations bring their own strengths to serving veterans. I'd look at it more as a mosaic. I think there's great value in the work you're doing out there, and it has to be a teamwork approach.
What I hear is that communication with the veteran, and being able to make the veteran aware of the services available, is a challenge. It's a challenge that you face and it's a challenge that we face, which is why there is promotional types of literature and advertising out to veterans to let them know what is available to them so they can plug into Veterans Affairs.
Tim, you spoke about a veteran who has gone dark in a sense. He has unplugged and he's looking after himself. It's my hope that if he sees advertising from you or from Veterans Affairs, a light might go on, and that he would say to himself, “I didn't realize that”, or “You know what, now that I see that, I'm going to plug in”, and be helped by what the government does, and by what you do as well.
I'd to focus a bit more on the study. Tim, if you don't mind, perhaps I'll use you as an example.
Let me go back to the vocational training. Let me ask first, were you a reservist or a full-time soldier?
