Veterans Affairs Committee on March 31st, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Good morning.

This morning, we are starting our 43rd meeting of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

We're taking a break from the study on the transition of members of the military with the Department of National Defence to veterans. Instead, we will be hearing from representatives of the Department of Veterans Affairs: Sue Foster, assistant deputy minister of communications and commemoration; John Desrosiers, acting director of commemoration operations; as well as from retired Major-General Richard Rohmer, special adviser to the minister.

The goal of their presentation is to provide an update on the commemoration activities of the Department of Veterans Affairs and to discuss some commemoration initiatives. We are dealing with this topic today, since this is when retired Major-General Rohmer is available.

This will be the only item on the orders of the day for today's meeting, and the nature of the meeting will be very similar to the Nijmegen march meeting from a few weeks back.

Major-General, we are ready to be enlightened by you.

[Major-General, Retired) Richard Rohmer (Special Advisor to the Minister, Senior Canadian Veteran for the Battle of the Liberation of the Netherlands, Department of Veterans Affairs]

We are ready at this end too, Mr. Chairman. We are not particularly well-prepared, but we're ready.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Major-General, Retired) Richard Rohmer (Special Advisor to the Minister, Senior Canadian Veteran for the Battle of the Liberation of the Netherlands, Department of Veterans Affairs]

I'm the adviser to the minister, and the adviser does not make any decisions. The decisions are made by the people who are here with me and those with the minister. I'm protecting myself to start with because the people with me know all about what we're doing. I only know fragmentary matters. I don't know that I know them that much, being an air force person.

[Sue Foster, Assistant Deputy Minister, Communications and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you, General Rohmer.

General Rohmer is very humble obviously.

Good morning, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. As Mr. Galipeau said, my name is Sue Foster.

I am the Assistant Deputy Minister of Policy, Communications and Commemoration at Veterans Affairs Canada.

Yesterday marked my five-month anniversary at Veterans Affairs Canada, so I'm a relatively new member to the department, and have been enjoying lots of fun and festivity over the last several months there. We've been very busy.

This is my first time appearing before the committee. I am pleased to be here to tell you about the upcoming commemorative activities of Veterans Affairs Canada.

Joining me at the table, as you know, is Major-General Richard Rohmer. General Rohmer serves as the minister's special adviser. He's also the senior Canadian veteran of the battle of the liberation of the Netherlands. I am also joined by John Desrosiers, our director of commemoration operations.

Our presentation today is separated into three main parts. First, we will provide some background, to explain the heightened period of commemoration with regard to World War I and World War II, followed by an overview of the Government of Canada's plans to mark the 100th anniversary of the Gallipoli campaign.

Today General Rohmer and I will focus on two of these initiatives. The first is the 100th anniversary of the Gallipoli campaign, an important battle in the history of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment. Then we'll talk about the 70th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands.

We'll begin with slide 4. I believe you have a deck in front of you with some background information. The 100th and 75th anniversaries of World War I and World War II from 2014 to 2020 represent a unique opportunity for Canadians to reflect on our country's long and proud military history. Throughout this period, Veterans Affairs Canada, in collaboration with Canadian Heritage and many other partners in Canada and abroad, will carry out a variety of commemorative activities marking the tremendous sacrifices and accomplishments of all of those who served.

On behalf of the Government of Canada, Veterans Affairs Canada is responsible for the maintenance of 14 memorials in France, Belgium and England. Those memorials commemorate Canadians and Newfoundlanders, men and women, who served during the First World War and the Second World War.

We are expecting a higher number of Canadian visitors to those memorials between 2014 and 2020. Veterans Affairs Canada will ensure that the visitors' experiences continue to be rich and meaningful, especially through the services provided by the student guides at the Beaumont-Hamel Newfoundland Memorial and the Canadian National Vimy Memorial in France.

The heightened period of remembrance will provide all Canadians with the extraordinary opportunity to celebrate their proud heritage, but most importantly to honour those who served and continue to serve our country to uphold the values of peace, freedom, and democracy.

As shown on slide 5, the next milestone anniversary the department will be marking is, as I mentioned, the 100th anniversary of the Gallipoli campaign. Also known as the Dardanelles campaign, the Battle of Gallipoli, or the Battle of Çanakkale—I think they put these words in here to test me. This was a campaign of the First World War that took place on the Gallipoli peninsula in Turkey between April 25, 1915 and January 9, 1916.

The 10-month campaign was the first major battle undertaken in the war by Australia and New Zealand and is often considered to mark the birth of national consciousness in both of these countries. The date of landing, April 25, known as Anzac Day, remains the most significant commemoration of military casualties in those two countries.

When Britain entered the First World War on August 4, 1914, Newfoundland, which was then a British dominion, was suddenly at war too. Gallipoli was the first of many battles that would earn the Newfoundland Regiment an impressive reputation during the First World War, earning them the title “Royal”. Of 47 members of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment who are known to have died during the Gallipoli campaign, 24 are buried on the peninsula. In comparison with Australia's and New Zealand's, Canada's contribution to Gallipoli was less significant, its main effort being to treat the wounded in military hospitals situated around the eastern Mediterranean. Each year, ceremonies are held on the Gallipoli peninsula on April 24 and 25. These ceremonies are normally attended by a small contingent from the Canadian embassy in Ankara.

I will turn to slide 6. As 2015 marks the centennial of the Gallipoli campaign, there is great interest by Australia and New Zealand in marking this milestone anniversary. As such, the Turkish government has capped attendance at 10,500, which is driven by the capacity at the site. Canada has been allotted 10 spots, with the understanding that Canada will coordinate Newfoundland and Labrador's participation within this allotment.

To pay respects to the Newfoundlanders who lost their lives, Veterans Affairs Canada is working with the Royal Newfoundland Regiment to identify a regimental delegation. We anticipate the participation of the honorary colonel, Lieutenant Governor Frank Fagan, to attend the Royal Newfoundland contingent. The remaining spots will be filled with commissioned and non-commissioned officers. We anticipate that five representatives from the Royal Newfoundland Regiment will join the delegation.

Slide 7 shows an overview of the schedule, which consists of the regiment's departing Newfoundland on April 21; a peace summit for heads of delegation in Istanbul on April 23; ceremonies at the Turkish, French, and British monuments in Çanakkale on April 24; and the signature event, a dawn service at Anzac Cove on the morning of April 25, followed by memorial services by the Turkish and New Zealanders. The Canadian delegation will follow a private program on April 26, with visits to Commonwealth War Graves Commission cemeteries to conduct wreath layings to pay tribute to the fallen Newfoundlanders. The delegation returns to Canada on April 28.

Planning is also in full swing at Veterans Affairs Canada for the 70th anniversary of the liberation of The Netherlands.

Before I go into specific detail about the Government of Canada's activities for this anniversary, I would like to invite the minister's special adviser, Major-General Richard Rohmer, who is also the senior Canadian veteran of the liberation of The Netherlands, to provide background on the battle.

We are on slide 8 now.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

Thank you.

Let me say to you that I am, indeed, the senior Canadian veteran of the battle of the freedom of the Netherlands. It's a function of age, among other things.

My part in the battle was in the air force with 430 Squadron, operating out of the great city of Eindhoven in Holland. I was a fighter pilot flying Mustang fighters doing fighter reconnaissance. Our job in our Mustangs was to support the army. We did low-level reconnaissance, visual, photographic, and the direction of artillery fire. Our job was not to shoot down other airplanes. Our job was to support the army, and that we did, I think, reasonably well.

When we got to a place called Venlo in Holland, Peter will tell you I knocked the bridges down at Venlo on November 19 with a huge artillery piece fired by the British battery. It was an eight-inch gun. Montgomery had decided that the bridges had to come down because the Germans were taking a lot of equipment across as they retreated, and so Montgomery said it had to be done, had to be down.

I was really old at the time. I was 20. I knew one end of an airplane from the other, and that was about it. In any event, I had done a lot of artillery shoots in Normandy, so I was selected to do this shoot. The gun was called a Super Heavy gun. It turned out to be an eight-inch American gun that the British had put together and were able to take into the battle area. It was the first time it had been fired. I was able, in contact with my radio at the battery, to range the shots.

For those of you who know artillery, the time of flight of the shells was 55 seconds. I had been operating with 150 millimetre guns elsewhere, and when the first shell hit, it hit right in the centre of Venlo. I was astonished by the amount of damage that was done, but I was able to get the shells landing on the other side of Maas River and eventually I left with the shells landing right beside the bridge, 14 miles away from the gun, and in the morning the bridges were down. I have a full record of that from British people. The battery commander never reported at all that the bridges were down because it had been ranged by an air force pilot, and a colonial at that. In any event, we got it down.

My time in the air force and in Holland was quite enlightening, at least it was for me, and I was able to survive the event. So I am now the senior person.

My notes indicate this, that from the fall of 1944 to the spring of 1945, the First Canadian Army played a major role in liberating The Netherlands and its people who had really suffered a great deal under the Germans.

The army was international in nature: our Canadian army, and the British, Polish, American, Belgian, and Dutch, totalling anywhere around 105,000 soldiers and more. We had 15 Canadian fighter squadrons involved in that battle, which was a very large presence of Spitfires, Typhoons and Mustangs.

More than 7,600 Canadians died during the nine-month liberation battle. That's a huge number when you look at it. A vast number of our Canadian lads are buried in Holland, and that speaks also to the respect that the Dutch have for Canada, the amount of sacrifice that was made. The Germans were really tough to battle with. We know that the Dutch treat us very kindly, and I have had the opportunity of being over there three times now for their great celebrations at the beginning of May.

In terms of Canada's involvement on May 5, the German generals surrendered to Canadian General Foulkes and Prince Bernhard at Wageningen. In a visit to Wageningen, where they have a huge parade on May 5 that is enormous, I had the opportunity to meet Prince Bernhard in 2004 and we became good friends. It's a major part of what we're going to be doing in relation to the celebration and commemorations in Holland this spring.

We leave here on May 1. On May 1 and May 2 the air force has organized to get us across with one or two Airbuses. There's always a discussion about whether we should have one or two, but we think we need two. We'll get that done. The Prime Minister will be over with us as well. Indeed our own minister will go for a short period of time and we will be able to celebrate first of all at Groesbeek, the great cemetery in Holland where a host of Canadians are buried. That will be on May 3. The next one is at Holten, which is the following day, and we will participate in that activity. The Dutch take care of our grave-sites extremely well and have their young people involved in terms of keeping them up.

The Minister of Veterans Affairs will be with us part of the time that we're going to be in Holland. The Prime Minister and Mrs. Harper will be there part of the time as well.

We are anticipating taking about 80 veterans of the battle. About 50 will be part of the official party and the others will be able to come through a subsidy of $2,000 for travel. We did that with Juno Beach as well and we're going to do it again in Holland. We have about 80 veterans now who are signed up either as the official party or under the $2,000 in travel assistance. The travel assistance also provides $2,000 for caregivers, if you will, to travel with the veterans. At the age of 91 I'm in very good shape. A lot of my colleagues are a bit older than that and they're not in the same condition that I happen to be at the moment. I'm in pretty good shape, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

That was a strong hug this morning.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

That was a strong one, absolutely. Of course I'm six feet four inches tall. I'm not really your height.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

And a star basketball player.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

Yes.

I'm the honorary of everything in sight in the Toronto area. The chief of police is just retiring. His name is Bill Blair. He's very famous and has been a fantastic chief for 10 years. He decided that it would be appropriate, because I'm six-foot-four and he is, that I should be an honorary chief of police of Toronto. So on Thursday of this last week, in my new uniform, I appeared at his office, with his senior staff. After great talking, because he talks a lot, and I listen a great deal—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

Like this morning.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

Yes, like this morning. I stood next to him, looked him right in the eye, and he formally presented me with my chief of police honorary badge and the card with my photograph on it and so forth. That was a very significant thing for me. Now I'm the honorary chief of police of Toronto. On my identification card, because there are a lot of honorary chiefs of police in Toronto, premiers and politicians and great people like that, my number is zero. It's significant that it's zero, and not one or five or whatever. It's zero. It means that I will have to be very careful in everything I do in Toronto now. When I go back today, I'll tell the chief that I was here, report to him that everyone treated me very carefully and nicely.

My name, by the way, is from Alsace. Rohmer. It sounds German, but it's a good French name. I had to put that in just so that you would understand.

Now this is the important thing, and I keep saying this, advising the minister—it's about the only thing I do because I don't make any decisions—you must concentrate on the veterans. The event is for them. Even though they're old and decrepit, they made a great contribution a long time ago, and the Dutch are the people who really respect them, so every focus will be in terms of what we're doing on looking after the veterans.

The minister has designated that there will be about nine or ten cadets from the Royal Military College of Canada travelling with us. They will be able to help the veterans. In Normandy we had a group from the Toronto Paramedic Services, of which I happen to be the honorary chief—it's just one of the things—and they looked after the veterans very well. They had to carry them off buses and airplanes and so forth and it worked very well. This time we're going to have some cadets from the Royal Military College.

The big event that we will participate in, again, is the big parade on May 5 at Wageningen. Arrangements have been made for the veterans to take part. Those who can't walk will go by vehicle. The Prime Minister will be able to say a few words during the ceremony. The town itself comes together with all its roads in the centre, and that's where the parade comes through. The saluting base is in that location as well. Canada has always taken a substantial part in the parade, and there will be with us in Holland about 150 members of our armed forces, both army and air force particularly. I had breakfast this morning with the Chief of the Defence Staff—he sent his respects to you—in English this morning. That's the way we operate. It works very well. He and I go way back to when he was a boy.

Yes?

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

General, I wonder how much more time you need for your charming presentation. You've been at it for 22 minutes now and Prince Peter and Prince Francis over there, they have some tough questions for you and we want to leave them some time.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

Well, Chairman, I'm always cognizant of the caution from the chair about time, but because at my age, time doesn't mean much.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

In any event, I'm fundamentally finished, except to say that we are really working hard on making this a significant one, because this celebration of Canada in Holland will be the last one of any significance due to the age factor. This is it.

My time is more than gone, and I appreciate the opportunity, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

I was completely mesmerized by your presentation. I thank you very much.

Does Mr. Desrosiers want to say a few words or is that it?

Ms. Foster, I just want to assure you that I didn't earn my “Royal” at Gallipoli. I earned it at St. Isidore.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Royal Galipeau]

We often hear about Canada's role in the Netherlands, not from Prince Bernhard but from Prince Peter, so now you can have an exchange with Prince Richard over there.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much.

Well, at my age time does mean something.

First of all, General Rohmer, thank you once again for everything you've done, and thanks to Veterans Affairs for this tremendous commemoration that's about to come.

As you know, I won't be there with you, as I have a commemoration in Halifax that I'm doing, because we have our cenotaph in front of Pier 2, where most of the veterans left from and where those who could, came back, yourself as well.

[MGen Richard Rohmer]

Yes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

It will be a tremendous event, I'm sure.

I have a couple of questions for you on the actual commemoration. On the 60th and 65th anniversaries, there are also commemorations by the Canadian government, with the Dutch government, at Camp Westerbork, which is in the central Netherlands. For those who don't know, Westerbork was a staging camp for all the so-called “undesirables” of the Netherlands and Belgium. They were rounded up, sent there, categorized, and then shipped off to Auschwitz, Dachau, and those areas.

One of the most beautiful monuments you could ever see are the rail lines that have been turned up and twisted. A Jewish prisoner of war at that time was an artist, and he came back, lifted up the rail lines and twisted them. That spiral symbolizes the souls that went off to heaven and the fact that no train would ever run on those tracks again.

Is the Canadian government planning to have commemorations at Camp Westerbork? That's my first question.

[John Desrosiers, Acting Director, Commemoration Operations, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you for your question.

I'm John Desrosiers. I'm the project manager for the project on the liberation of the Netherlands. Our recce team was in the Netherlands in January and I had an opportunity to be at Camp Westerbork myself. It was a very impactful moment. I know exactly what you're talking about in terms of the tracks.

The Government of Canada delegation will be assisting in a ceremony on May 7 in Camp Westerbork. Our delegation itself, from a Veterans Affairs Canada perspective, will be 200-strong, including the veterans whom the Major General mentioned. It is a signature event that we had to place on the schedule, based on our experiences in 2005. It will take place on May 7.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

Also, the Newfoundland and Labrador government, as you know, has been in talks with the Turkish government. As you know, on most of the battle sites where Newfoundlanders participated, there is a statue of a caribou that faces the enemy, but they don't have one at Gallipoli yet. One of the concerns, of course, is that the Turkish government is still technically a little upset with us because of the motion on the Armenian genocide, but there have been talks between Newfoundland and Turkey in order to have a caribou statue placed where the Newfoundlanders fell at Gallipoli.

Have you been involved in any of those discussions? If you haven't, is it possible that you could bring it up when you're there to see if it is possible in the future that the Newfoundlanders and Labradorians could make the effort of putting their caribou statue there? The one that was supposed to be there now is in Bowring Park in St. John's, Newfoundland. That one was technically supposed to be in Gallipoli, but due to some political concerns, it's not there yet.

Are you aware of it? Do you have any thoughts at all on that?