Evidence of meeting #46 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was remembrance.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Sonia Gallo  Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board
Michael Blais  President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy
Bradley K. White  Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
William Maxwell  Senior Program Officer, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
Jean-Rodrigue Paré  Committee Researcher

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Frank Valeriote

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the 46th meeting of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. Today we'll be studying, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the subject matter of clause 1 of Bill C-597, an act to amend the Holidays Act.

We have with us from the Canadian Veterans Advocacy, Michael Blais, president and founder. We have from the Royal Canadian Legion, Bradley White, Dominion secretary, Dominion Command; and William Maxwell, senior program officer, Dominion Command. Joining us from the York Catholic District School Board via teleconference is Sonia Gallo, communications manager.

Before we get going, Sonia, can you hear me all right?

8:45 a.m.

Sonia Gallo Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board

I can hear you, yes, thank you. Good morning.

8:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Frank Valeriote

Good morning, and we can hear you as well.

So without further ado, we'll start the meeting by calling on Mr. Blais.

You have 10 minutes, Mr. Blais.

8:45 a.m.

Michael Blais President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy

Good morning.

My name is Michael Blais and I'm the president and founder of the Canadian Veterans Advocacy.

Thank you for inviting me to Ottawa to speak to Bill C-597 and the sacred obligation that I believe this legislation represents. I welcome the opportunity and encourage you as parliamentarians to demonstrate apolitical respect for those who serve today in the veterans' community by ensuring Remembrance Day is accorded federal equality to other federal holidays.

As you are aware, I testified last week beside Dominion Secretary White before the heritage committee, and I should like to ensure that a copy of this testimony is included as a written submission by the clerk, because I think it is counterproductive to repeat what I have said last week in lieu of the extensive consultation process we have conducted since my appearance before the committee.

I would remind committee that we have had just over a month to formally consult and that Bill C-597 is unique in the the sense that, while we have been supporting Wilma McNeill's quest to convince the Ontario legislature to embrace their sacred obligation to veterans of Ontario in the provision of a statutory holiday for some time now, this bill is different. It seeks only a legal holiday without legislated day-off status. I have endeavoured to speak to as many veterans and serving members as possible since being invited, from a chance encounter with the CDS in the hallway last week prior to testimony, to purposely speaking to non-commissioned officers currently standing sentinel at the National War Memorial.

I have also attempted to expand our consultation to my community in response to a medical emergency in my family in the expansive time I have spent in Niagara hospitals over the past month. The issue is a fine discussion point, and there was ample opportunity to speak to many Canadians of all professions and all areas in lobbies or waiting rooms. Of course, there's our engagement through the CVA social network, which has grown substantially since our last encounter, and our effort to work with the Department of Veterans Affairs to ensure that updated and accurate information, particularly in this era of change, is provided to veterans who use the Internet as their primary source of news gathering or consultation.

As it stands now, through consultation with serving members, veterans, families, and the civilian population we have engaged we find there is universal support for the legal holiday that Bill C-597 presents. Once the bill is defined, once it has been clarified that no days off would be accorded, support has been universal. It is vital that our discussions today focus on the opportunity Parliament has been provided through this bill to honour and respect national sacrifice in a meaningful and effective manner.

We must understand that Bill C-597 neither imposes or mandates a federal day-off holiday such as the oft-quoted comparative Victoria Day and the insinuation that Remembrance Day would become just another holiday. This argument has no foundation in these discussions. There is no day off. For the schoolchildren, if there was no school, they would simply go to the mall and ignore the reason that Remembrance Day exists. Again, this is not a day-off holiday. These arguments have no bearing with the content of Bill C-597. Accordingly, our collective focus must be on the context of the bill, the acknowledgement that it presents only equality to other federal holidays, and that it does not impose on or mandate provinces to provide a statutory holiday.

Accordingly, I would encourage all parliamentarians to set aside political agendas and embrace the opportunity Bill C-597 provides for them to fulfill their obligation to the spirit of the nation. I would encourage you to work together, united in respect for the national sacrifice of Canada's sons and daughters, and to pass this bill before the next election. I am aware that no private member's bill has passed to fruition, and that the potential delays incurred by this committee's late stage involvement may jeopardize the bill's passing. To that end, again, I would encourage you to move swiftly with unity and with understanding that you are according equality not only to other federal holidays, but acknowledging recognition of the sacrifice of all generations and the valorous service of those who serve today.

I often speak to equality for veterans, whether it may be the equality of the Pension Act for those disabled and wounded who have been subject to the new veterans charter; equality to the anti-poverty provision established in the new veterans charter for Memorial Cross widows currently living in poverty; or in this instance, recognition and equality of Remembrance Day to other federal holidays.

Ultimately this bill is about respect, about ensuring equality and stature for our most important time, the day we reserve to recognize and honour national sacrifice, our wounded and disabled veterans, our serving members' selfless service, and their families' commitment to this nation.

Bill C-597 fulfills this obligation and I would encourage you to embrace this opportunity to apolitically approve legislation at your earliest convenience so that we may resolve this issue under this government, not the next one. The process will undoubtedly, at additional cost, be repeated. We can do this in the now. We can affirmatively demonstrate tangible support and recognition of sacrifice by ensuring that Remembrance Day is not a lesser holiday and that it is legislatively enshrined as a legal holiday.

Thank you for inviting me to speak to this issue. It is always a pleasure for me to be here. I am hopeful that we can explore this issue with constructive, bill-focused dialogue. I welcome your questions and shall endeavour to answer to the best of my ability.

8:50 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer

Will it be Mr. White or Mr. Maxwell speaking next?

April 28th, 2015 / 8:50 a.m.

Bradley K. White Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Chairman, it will be me.

8:50 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer

Mr. White, you have the floor, please.

Thanks again for coming.

8:50 a.m.

Dominion Secretary, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

Bradley K. White

Honourable chairman and members of the committee, good morning and thank you for the invitation to appear before the committee today to speak on Bill C-597. On behalf of our Dominion president, Comrade Tom Eagles, and our 300,000 members, it's a pleasure to be here.

I am Brad White, the Dominion secretary of the Royal Canadian Legion. For the last 17 years I have been involved in every major commemorative activity the Legion has participated in, as well as being the director of the national Remembrance Day ceremony.

Accompanying me today is Mr. William Maxwell. Bill is our senior program officer. He's also the secretary of the Dominion Command poppy and remembrance committee, and very much involved in all of our commemorative activities.

It is the Legion's position that November 11 not be a legal or statutory holiday. Therefore, I will be speaking against the proposed amendments in Bill C-597.

As background information, such positions, and other matters of Legion policy result from resolutions passed at a Dominion Convention following consultation and debate at all three levels of the organization. The procedure for enacting change in the Legion starts at the branch level, where any member can propose a change in policy or administrative procedure that could affect the entire organization.

Following a review and discussion by all members within the branch, the resolution passes to the provincial command level. It is at the provincial command convention that delegates from within that provincial jurisdiction further consider and discuss the proposed resolution.

If the delegates concur, the resolution is submitted to our Dominion Convention for consideration at the national level. This is the third and final level of consultation and debate within the organization. If passed by the Dominion Convention, which is attended by delegates from all of the branches in all provincial commands of the organization, the resolution becomes adopted policy and approved procedure.

As you can see, such matters receive very thorough consideration and undergo debate throughout all levels of our organization.

The holiday status of Remembrance Day has been debated at numerous Dominion Conventions throughout the Legion's history, in fact, 13 times since 1970, and most recently at our 2012 Dominion Convention. It was at the 2012 convention that the Legion's position against Remembrance Day being a statutory holiday was reaffirmed.

We remain concerned that if given the time off as a legal holiday Canadians may not take the time to remember, that it may simply become a mid-week break or just part of another long weekend. The latter situation relates specifically to the discussion at the 1978 Dominion Convention, which focused on how government departments of the day treated November 11 as a floating holiday for the purpose of giving their employees a long weekend. This must not be allowed to happen again.

We have heard an interpretation that making Remembrance Day a legal holiday would not designate it as a statutory holiday. The semantics of such interpretations are subjective. One need only look at the news media reporting on the progress of the bill to see it is a commonplace position that statutory holiday status is exactly what the bill would produce.

This perception is further validated by association, as the bill would serve to designate Remembrance Day as being the same as Canada Day and Victoria Day, both of which are legal holidays in the Holidays Act, with each also being a statutory holiday. If it is not the intent of the bill to make Remembrance Day a statutory holiday, if designating it a legal holiday would not change its current status according to the interpretation provided by the Library of Parliament report to the Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage, why propose the bill in the first place?

Perhaps what is needed is to raise awareness and understanding of Remembrance Day, which could be achieved through education strategies. It is paramount that the significance of Remembrance Day be instilled in our youth and in the general population to show respect for the sacrifices of our fallen. To honour this day, many schools hold assemblies where they organize their own commemorations. Some teachers take their students to participate collectively with their peers in ceremonies at local cenotaphs, thereby strengthening the significance of November 11.

The Legion works very closely with schools throughout the country to provide an educational component to Remembrance Day. In addition to welcoming classes at ceremonies, the Legion’s teaching guide is an excellent educational tool, which has been viewed or downloaded from our website more than a million times.

In a letter last fall to Mr. Dan Harris, the Ontario Federation of Home and School Associations expressed strong support for the Legion's position on Remembrance Day.

The association noted that:

In the 1960's, Ontarians did observe Remembrance Day as a school holiday. Children remained at home to play, watch television and enjoy a day of rest.... At that time, veterans' groups, school boards and other organizations such as the OFHSA petitioned to have schools remain open on Remembrance Day.... “...so that suitable Remembrance Day services can be held in schools to provide students with a better understanding of the purpose and tribute paid.”

So too are we encouraged to hear of organized commemorations in workplaces on November 11. We need to make honouring and remembering an important part of our regular routine on that specific day and not simply provide a day off from work or school. Take Victoria Day, for example, a legal holiday, and question what observances are held across the country to honour Canada's longest-serving monarch. For most it just provides a long weekend in May. We must not let Remembrance Day suffer that very same fate.

We thank you again for giving the Legion this opportunity to express its views on Bill C-597.

8:55 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer

Mr. White, thank you very much.

Mr. Maxwell, do you want to say any words at all sir?

8:55 a.m.

William Maxwell Senior Program Officer, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion

No, that's fine.

8:55 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer

Very good sir, thank you.

We will now turn our attention to the video screen for a few moments, and Sonia Gallo of the York Catholic District School Board.

8:55 a.m.

Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board

Sonia Gallo

Members, good morning. It is a pleasure to be here on behalf of our chair of the board, Elizabeth Crowe, and our director of education, Ms. Patricia Preston, to speak to you this morning about Bill C-597, an act to amend the Holidays Act, Remembrance Day.

At the York Catholic District School Board's regular meeting of the board, held on Tuesday, November 25, the board of trustees passed a motion that a letter be written to members of municipal, provincial, and federal governments to express their strong belief that November 11, Remembrance Day, should not be made a statutory or school holiday. This year, nearly 100 letters were sent. The motion was a result of comments made to trustees by several veterans who visited and presented at various Remembrance Day services across the York Catholic District School Board. The veterans' comments unanimously expressed their desire to keep our schools open on November 11 in order to appropriately honour this important day.

The York Catholic District School Board supports this desire by our veterans and does not endorse Member of Parliament Dan Harris's private bill to make November 11, Remembrance Day, a statutory holiday. Although the bill may have good intentions, we believe that school Remembrance Day ceremonies and activities are an opportunity to teach young students to appreciate the many sacrifices of those who have fought, died, and served for our great nation.

Remembrance Day ceremonies are held at each of our 104 schools with over 55,000 students participating to honour our Canadian Armed Forces and Canada's fine military history. Students gain a better understanding of the meaning of Remembrance Day and are able to fully participate in activities commemorating the sacrifices that Canadians have made in armed conflicts by wearing poppies, offering prayers of thanks, hope and peace, hearing liturgies, hearing war veterans recount, or hearing active duty personnel speak to students, and observing a moment of silence.

This year alone, we had many members of the Canadian Armed Forces visit our schools to speak to our young students. There is no guarantee that students would respectfully observe Remembrance Day if they were not in school, because it would be a statutory holiday. We respectfully ask that you work with all levels of government to discourage the making of Remembrance Day into a statutory holiday so that we can continue to create meaningful learning opportunities for the future generations of Canadians, our students.

Thank you, and I welcome any questions.

9 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer

Ms. Gallo, thank you very much for that. We greatly appreciate it.

Now we'll turn over to our individual MPs for five minutes of questioning.

I should let everybody know that our regular committee chair, Mr. Royal Galipeau, is unfortunately unable to be with us. He did send thanks to everyone who's appeared before the committee as well as to the members, and hopefully he'll be back very soon.

Also, I would advise the committee that it was previously agreed that this meeting will go to 9:45, so I would ask that members keep their questions and witnesses keep their responses fairly succinct so we can get in as many questions as possible.

Thank you.

Mr. Harris, go ahead, please, for five minutes.

9 a.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I wanted to quickly clarify one matter of confusion. Did the veterans affairs committee request that heritage study this bill or did heritage request that veterans affairs study this bill?

9 a.m.

NDP

The Vice-Chair NDP Peter Stoffer

I believe the letter came from the chair of the heritage committee for the chair of the veterans committee to look at this bill.

9 a.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Thank you very much.

I'm going to start with Ms. Gallo. No offence to the witnesses here, but we have already spoken with you before.

Ms. Gallo, in the Peel board, with the 104 schools that observe ceremonies for Remembrance Day, what does the school board do when Remembrance Day falls on a weekend?

9 a.m.

Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board

Sonia Gallo

In schools we normally celebrate with liturgies and by inviting veterans and members of the Canadian Armed Forces either on the Friday or the Monday.

9 a.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Do you think the kids at that point miss out if the ceremony is taking place on the last school day before or after?

9 a.m.

Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board

Sonia Gallo

No, we don't believe so because usually they do school assemblies. The kids are very involved in the planning and preparation of the event, so it continues to be a learning opportunity for our students all the way through.

9 a.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Absolutely, and certainly it is legislated in the Ontario school curriculum that Remembrance Day be observed. I think it's important to do that whether it's on the day of or not. Obviously you won't have any statistics to this effect, but do you ever hear about kids going to ceremonies with their parents when it falls on the weekend?

9 a.m.

Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board

Sonia Gallo

We certainly do. Our teachers can provide feedback in that regard, but we certainly do hear about children visiting cenotaphs and participating in Remembrance Day ceremonies with their parents, especially when grandparents and great-grandparents have fought and served.

9 a.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Absolutely.

Now, whether Remembrance Day was on a weekend or on a day off, do you not think the responsibility would fall to the parents to make sure their kids go to ceremonies?

9 a.m.

Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board

Sonia Gallo

Sure. Part of the discussion, in fact, is that it is the role of the parent to also provide learning opportunities for children. But we feel it would become a mall day for most children.

9:05 a.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

That's certainly possible if the malls are open, but do you understand that this bill doesn't actually create a statutory holiday?

9:05 a.m.

Communications Manager, York Catholic District School Board

Sonia Gallo

Yes. But we're looking at not creating a school holiday on this particular day, at giving students an opportunity to be inside the school to create meaningful learning opportunities on this day, to continue the tradition.