Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 19th, 2013

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

The decision has not been made. That's been in abeyance for some time. This matter was hard fought by Mr. Manuge and others who joined that class action lawsuit against the government. The government fought against it tooth and nail. Not to be overly graphic or crass, people are dying and that was part of the outrage of veterans and others with the court case and the way the government was fighting this.

I wonder if you could give us some clear indication, Minister, when your government is going to step up and correct the problem they created.

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Go ahead.

[Mary Chaput]

If I may say so, Mr. Chair, the government did not appeal the decision as it relates to Veterans Affairs, because the court decision was not binding on Veterans Affairs. It was binding on DND contractual arrangements.

The programs we adjusted as a result of the decision were adjusted without appeal and at the government's voluntary will.

I would note that in budget 2013, $262 million was provided to Veterans Affairs as a result of recalculations we are doing and infusions of cash into several programs. One of those was the war veterans allowance program, in which, as has been noted, offsets were previously made but are no longer being made.

The earnings loss program was also increased, as was the Canadian Forces income supplement benefit we administer. As well, further money is going into our veterans independence program and our long-term care program.

So certainly we have taken steps to secure the funding that allows us to mirror to some degree the court decision as it relates to veterans programs, notwithstanding the fact that legally the government was not bound to do so.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

My understanding is that the government made a commitment that they were going to do right by veterans in this regard. My concern is that the government, your department, continues to withhold moneys that should be paid out to those veterans.

I have to tell you, especially with the recent news about how government departments have failed to spend upwards of $10 billion annually over the past three years out of budgets approved by Parliament, it doesn't give me great confidence to hear you say you have this money in your budget and you're trying to do well by veterans.

This is something that veterans and veterans advocates and people in our caucus will continue to talk to you about.

I have a couple of other questions.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Mr. Chisholm, unfortunately you've exercised your five minutes, sir. I apologize.

[Robert Chisholm, NDP, Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, NS]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

I believe that was more of a statement than a question.

We'll move on to the government side with Mr. Laurie Hawn, please, for five minutes.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and officials.

First of all, I want to thank Ms. Chaput for clarifying the question that Mr. Chisholm asked and clarifying very clearly that Veterans Affairs fulfilled their obligations even though they weren't legally required to do so. Thank you for that.

Mr. Minister, you and I have talked before about how in my view the biggest issue with the new Veterans Charter or veterans benefits is access, and how there are sometimes challenges to access. I will note that these challenges existed under the Pension Act as well, so challenges to access are not new. People seem to forget that and think that everything changed with the new Veterans Charter. It didn't change. Access challenges have always been there and are still there. That's one thing that concerns me personally.

Can you talk a little bit about things we might be able to do—and I have some ideas that I'll share with you maybe today, maybe later—to fix the challenges to access to make things a little bit more accessible?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Thank you for the question.

Surely, one of the things we hope we can improve on is our service delivery to veterans. To that end, any recommendations that come forward from this body will be well received and certainly will be very helpful.

We obviously are on a mission to cut red tape wherever we can, optimizing the ability to serve the needs of our veterans. There's also the misgiving that's in place. There's so much misinformation for someone who's come into this world relatively new in terms of having to learn the issues from many different perspectives, and sort out truth from fiction and misinformation, and who has some difficulty in understanding some issues. The one thing I can say is that we have many challenges, but surely one of them is to ensure that especially veterans, veterans advocacy groups, and stakeholders are empowered with the proper information to enable them to make decisions.

One of the items which I think needs to be done is how we communicate in a more efficient, more effective, way to veterans in terms of what they need to know. We probably need to do some work in that particular area. There are things which I hope this committee will consider and will share with us.

One of the misgivings of course, as we heard earlier, is the business about closures of offices. The offices are being closed for what we believe to be all the right reasons, but there are things in place. Nobody is requiring veterans who are in need of support or in need of direct contact with people to drive two hours anywhere. We will come to their homes. Case managers or case workers, nurses or whomever, will come to their homes. It's things like this that we need to work on.

It isn't always about how we do things, but it's also about empowering people to know what their rights entitlement is also about and to be able to sort out fact from fiction.

[Laurie Hawn, Conservative, Edmonton Centre, AB]

Thank you for that.

In terms of the overall aim of veterans programs, veterans have changed. Obviously, we have a lot of younger veterans and so on. It seems to me that the overall aim of the program is no longer lifelong financial dependence, other than for those who may need that because of their personal circumstances, but it's rehabilitation and retraining, so the veterans, especially the younger veterans, can get on with life on their own terms. Is that a fair statement?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

It's absolutely fair. As I make my way and speak to veterans, ongoing and traditional veterans and more recent veterans, there certainly is an emerging greater need with the more recent veterans, especially post the Afghanistan war and all of that. We have to make some adjustments. That's why I believe this particular committee has the opportunity to address those issues so that we can again put in place whatever improvements we can with respect to the new Veterans Charter.

It would be a huge mistake for anybody to think that we should take the new Veterans Charter and chuck it, because when you look at the comparative figures—and I'll be happy to share with the committee, Mr. Chair, an actual comparative assessment of the old pension system, the new Veterans Charter, and also what is available from other government entities that can help veterans along their way. We'll share that with you later, Mr. Chair, but surely we need to modernize our approach to how we deal with veterans' issues. This committee I think would be a great resource to enable us to do that.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you, Mr. Hawn.

We now move on to Mr. Lizon for five minutes, please.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I would like to join my colleague in thanking you for attending the 70th anniversary of Operation Husky, which started the Italian campaign. You went to Italy, to Sicily, shortly after taking on your portfolio to pay tribute to those who fought there and died there during the Second World War.

Minister, the first question I would like to ask you has to do with the priority hiring for injured veterans. Could you tell the committee a little bit more about why you introduced that project?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Simply stated, it's just another effort to help our veterans who have been injured, as I call it, on duty in the service of Canada have access to government jobs, if they're qualified. Obviously, we're still looking to ensure that people are qualified. That's why that training module, that $75,000-plus, will be very helpful.

We're looking to ensure that veterans who have been injured in some way in the line of duty are given a priority when it comes to accessing federal government jobs. That priority will be in place for five years. A veteran can be on that priority list for five years. Hopefully by then they will find suitable employment that they would wish to pursue in the federal government. Those veterans who are not injured on duty will have their status changed from two to five years.

It's another effort among many to pay tribute, to recognize, to appreciate the service of our veterans, especially those who have sustained an injury while serving, giving them priority hiring status within the federal government, the public service.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

My second question has to do with another priority you mentioned, and that's homelessness. Can you take a moment and speak about why you've made this a priority? Can you also explain the pilot project and how it's going?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

Mr. Chair, and members, I happen to come from a profession where in my experience I dealt a lot at the community level, obviously, with homelessness issues. It was not specific to veterans, but homelessness generally.

I feel that any veteran who is homeless is one homeless veteran too many. In actual fact, there's a pilot project under way involving a number of cities across Canada. There's great data coming together. A number of stakeholder groups are working very hard to help us identify and help homeless veterans realize their hopes and aspirations rather than be on the street.

I was recently in Calgary, where there's a homelessness program with a veterans focus which is achieving tremendous success. Our intent is that we need to do more in this particular area. We need to broaden our partnership with a lot of the entities that are now working in this particular area, such as the Royal Canadian Legion and Good Shepherd Ministries in Toronto. There are so many of them.

We need to do more in this particular area, because as I stated, fundamentally, one homeless veteran is one too many. I think we can do much better in this particular area.

Here again, Mr. Chair, and members, if you have any suggestions or recommendations that can address that very issue, we would be very pleased if you would share them with us.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Mr. Chair—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

You have 22 seconds, sir.

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Twenty-two seconds?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

You can say hello and he'll say goodbye, and then you're done.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Wladyslaw Lizon, Conservative, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Still on homelessness, Minister, what's the biggest challenge?

[Julian Fantino, Conservative, Vaughan, ON]

That's actually a good question. It's identifying veterans who are homeless who for whatever reason do not self-identify. It's difficult to ascertain, if you will, the validity of veterans who may be homeless, whether they are or they aren't actually veterans. That identity issue is one of the more difficult areas we need to tackle.

That's why this pilot project with stakeholders is working to find ways to get better plugged in. I'm thinking that one of our resources there would be police officers. They're on the street, they're in contact with people all the time. It would be a natural thing for them to help us identify homeless veterans so that we can then engage.

There are so many supports available to homeless veterans that we can access right away to help them get off the street.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Peter Stoffer]

Thank you, Mr. Minister.

Now we go to Manon Perreault, who is sharing her time with Mr. Chicoine, I understand.

As we're in the second round now, members have four minutes.

Madame Perreault, for four minutes, please.