Evidence of meeting #102 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
All right. Thank you.
Of those 45, do you know how many were men and how many were women?
5:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Old Brewery Mission
I don't know the exact number, but the vast majority would be....
To guess, it would be something like 42 to three, or something like that.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
This question is basically for all of you.
David, you talked about your tiny homes project. When homes are found for people, are there requirements, rules or regulations, that they have to abide by in the tiny homes, or when you set them up with a home?
5:20 p.m.
President, Homes for Heroes Foundation
Yes.
With our program, The Mustard Seed, when they come in, there is a needs analysis done.
There are rules to be part of this community, so this tool isn't for everybody. The idea is that they're agreeing to be a part of the community as an active participant. They agree that they'll share through peer-to-peer programming, that they'll work on themselves. The idea is that if they have drug dependency or alcoholism, they'll work on getting support on that as well.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
They're having to do steps as they go along to make certain they are basically following the guidelines, and as you talked about, using support services, getting back on their feet, looking for employment and that sort of thing.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
5:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness
I think in a lot of Housing First programs, one of the challenges in getting people engaged in the programs is the rules within them. Some will choose the path that David outlined, but there are a lot of others who won't.
In Housing First programs, the requirements are basically that people will pay a portion of their rent, so they'll pay the rent they can afford. They have to maintain the terms of a lease, like everybody else. They have to speak with a case manager once a week, depending on the level of need.
We try to remove as many of these barriers as we can. For a lot of people struggling with addictions, for example, in mental health, some will, as in Dave's program, say, “Look, I want to get clean and I need this structured environment, and that's where I want to go.” However, a lot of others won't. We bring them into these Housing First programs and we don't require sobriety or abstinence as a requirement of the program, but then we work with them over time to address those issues and build them toward independence.
5:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Old Brewery Mission
The sentinels program is largely as Tim described. There are no preconditions. They have to abide by the terms of the lease. They sign a lease, not with us but with the building owner. We have already created a link of confidence with that person such that the caseworker has a rapport with them. That's where we have our leverage to help them.
Our objective is not to create perfect human beings; it's to take people who are in a state of homelessness and give them an opportunity to sustain themselves outside of homelessness, in their imperfections and challenges. We try to reduce the potential for them to fall back on the street as much as possible.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Great.
Both of you gave us five points. They were excellent points to present to us, and I appreciate them.
With the one I keyed in on, both of them said exactly the same thing, which was “prevention”.
I'd love to hear a little more from you about your concept of prevention. Where do you see that going? We've talked a lot over the years on this committee about transition. We've had our discussions about that, but I'd love to hear from both of you, in the short time I have left, as to where you see that transition might be.
Tim, I'll start with you.
5:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness
Sure.
Often people will say that everybody is one paycheque away from homelessness and homelessness is random. I don't believe for a second that homelessness is random.
I think, for veterans, that homelessness is fairly predictable. As I said, the work of Dennis Culhane in the United States is giving the VA a screening tool to say which veterans are at greatest risk of homelessness. I would start by getting a Canadian sense of what those predictors are.
The pathway is also fairly predictable. We know that all people, including veterans, will touch public systems on their way into homelessness. We also know that their supportive relationships fall apart on their way into homelessness. It happens in a fairly predictable pattern.
Again, it's using data to understand patterns, and borrowing what's already been done in the States and other places to predict it.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Thank you.
Mr. Bratina, we'll end with you. We have about four minutes.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you.
You've all brought some great perspectives to our committee. Thank you all.
Mr. Pearce, I want to start with a couple of things that you said: The first priority isn't about houses. This has come up many times. The public discussion has been, “Oh, veterans who are homeless? Put some buildings up and get them in there.” I think what you were getting at is that you have to start the process before that, as Mr. Kitchen was discussing, and do the transition and so on.
Does the public discussion of this bother you? I did football broadcasting for 20 years, and it used to drive me nuts that after a game when the public would phone in to the radio station and say what was wrong with the team. They didn't know half of what was going on, which was not their fault, because what you're seeing from the outside and what's happening on the inside are two different things.
Would you agree that's similar to this kind of problem, in the sense that we're not going to get it solved until we really focus on the understanding of it?
5:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Old Brewery Mission
First of all, I'll be mindful of your comments next time I call in to the radio show after a Habs game because I thought I knew exactly what went wrong in that game.
Your question gives me an opportunity to bring something into clearer focus that maybe didn't come across: Housing is the cornerstone of any solution to homelessness. The sooner you can give someone access to housing and the supports necessary to make that a success, then the better it is.
We're not about a meritocracy that requires someone to demonstrate that they deserve housing. We're not about that, so if I gave you that impression, that's not it at all.
Housing—what was your question again? Sorry. It's just so I can—
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Well, the point is that the general public discussion doesn't seem to bring into understanding the full nature of the problem. Is that fair to say?
5:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Old Brewery Mission
I think it's fair to say that we're in a public education process as well right now about what is possible. We're learning ourselves about what is possible and we can then convey that to the public.
I think there's still a pervasive sense that homeless people are almost lost souls and beyond recuperation or redemption in some ways, but I'm speaking in a very general sense here. A lot of people would not find themselves in that description.
Generally speaking, I think that we have to show the public that they should have faith in programs that can move people out of homelessness, because they work, and I think that's our job collectively.
5:25 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
That leads me to Tim and the notion of partnering organizations. There is a lot of knowledge out there, and we've heard other testimony like, “Don't reinvent the wheel. There are things that are working. Find out where they are and enhance them.”
Is there perhaps some sort of clearing house where there's a better understanding of what's out there and what might need a little topping up, just to make the system work better?
5:25 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness
Actually, this is something your hometown of Hamilton is doing really well, by starting with a basis of data. Once you've got a by-name list, you begin to coordinate all the different resources around the system. If you develop the by-name list specifically on veterans, you'll begin to discover who in that community is involved, or could be involved, in finding them, housing them and supporting them. That's the beginning of the coalition and that coordination in the community.
To your earlier question about awareness, the minister can promote all the great work Veterans Affairs is doing until he's blue in the face, but nobody will believe him, because he's the minister and it's from the government. Nothing will speak better and more powerfully than results. Get the numbers down and everybody will believe you.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you very much.
Thank you both. Thank you all for being here.
5:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Thank you.
That ends the time for today. I'd like to thank all three of you for all you're doing to try to end homelessness for communities. On behalf of the committee, thanks for taking the time out of your busy day today.
This ends today's questioning. Thank you.
The meeting is adjourned.