Evidence of meeting #102 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thanks, Chair.
That's very informative; thank you so much for what you're giving us today. It gives a lot of hope to the situation to have you here.
Mr. Pearce, you named the things that need to happen and you mentioned one specifically, and these gentlemen did as well: the whole area of prevention. You said a number of them have great difficulty transitioning.
I brought that up in the past at this committee. How big a factor is that anger and frustration level in ending up homeless?
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Old Brewery Mission
As I mentioned earlier, the anger and frustration that's being expressed by the people we're serving is significant. Often when we talk about reconnecting them to VAC, they have a visceral opposition because of their experience. I think that can change, and I think some of the measures that are being planned and foreseen are going to change that, but it's a cultural, relational shift.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
David and Tim, when it comes to preventing it from happening in the first place, this committee is trying to help with that seamless transition model that we're looking at. Right now, these individuals are medically released from the Canadian Armed Forces due to service. They have no choice. Then they go to VAC and they have to go through this proving process again before they can begin to get the services they need.
Would anybody comment on how important it would be to simply accept DND's statement at that initial release that they are being released for medical reasons due to service, and get on with providing them with what they need to move forward?
4:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness
I'll start.
I think there is an assumption that there is a correlation between medical discharge and homelessness. That's not necessarily always the case. We need to have a bit better evidence to suggest that.
I also think that when people are released from the forces, there will be no indication that they're going to run into problems. They may be set up, and then a problem comes two or three or four years down the road. It's about figuring out what happens in the period between their release and when they become homeless so that we can intervene.
Again this is anecdotal and it's just what I've been hearing, but there seems to be about a five- to 10-year lag between their release from the forces and when they end up in homelessness. A lot of things fall apart for people on the way into homelessness, but they're interacting with systems all the way through that process.
It's understanding that trajectory. That's why I refer to the work that Dennis Culhane is doing in the States.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
For us to understand that process and why it's happening is a big gap, and of course part of it is that “soldier on” mentality. They fight that condition until they hit a certain point.
4:45 p.m.
President, Homes for Heroes Foundation
I think the veterans we talked about are not all suffering medically from post-traumatic stress. A large group are, but we start to see post-traumatic stress a number of years after they've left service. In talking to them, we're finding they're disengaging from the family unit; that's usually the case. They're on the street. I think I agree that it is a 10-year period.
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
4:45 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
He's a good friend of mine as well. I'm from Yorkton—Melville. That's my constituency. We're a smaller community. We're not a big city, which he says in some ways is an advantage when you're trying to work with these veterans to help them adjust. We have good education opportunities and those types of things.
Are there ways for communities, as you're talking about the need to have this done, to connect and develop a program with you? How does that work?
4:45 p.m.
President, Homes for Heroes Foundation
I think there is room to build. At the same time, we found, in talking to our vets, that we can't take them away from their street family. There is a sense of security in having that. What we're finding—and Tim maybe would agree—is that a large percentage of our homeless vets are in the major cities. They're by bases. To take them out of that situation gets uncomfortable right away.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
I can completely appreciate that. In that connection, I'm finding more and more, as I have this role, that there are a lot of veterans in Saskatchewan that you can't find. They are starting to pop up.
4:50 p.m.
President, Homes for Heroes Foundation
There are a lot of veterans you can't find across Canada. I met with a gentleman on the border of B.C. and Alberta. There are vets who are living in the woods. They're bunkered down. Every so often forestry comes in and kicks them out, and they have nowhere to go.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness
It's important to know that there are a lot of assumptions loaded into how we're responding to veterans today. There's an assumption, for example, that their disability is related to service or whatever.
In my view, there are a couple of things that are really important. There are a couple of different generations of veterans. There are people who were in the forces and now are homeless, but the connection between their service and their homelessness isn't really there. These are 50- to 60-year-old alcoholic men.
Then there's a newer generation of veterans who are dealing with some of the issues you were referring to. They have injuries or disabilities related to service, such as post-traumatic stress or medical issues. There is a direct connection, and they are a lot younger.
It's also important that we don't make assumptions about what they want. We have to engage with them individually. Ask them what they want, and begin to tailor responses to them. I'm talking about getting this person-specific data to get a real-time understanding of who they are and what they need. We need to document that need and then provide a response. It is different.
4:50 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Is that data specifically for veterans and that program, or just homelessness, and veterans would be identified as well?
November 29th, 2018 / 4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness
It's for homelessness. Veterans would be identified as well.
4:50 p.m.
New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.
Thank you, and thank you all for your testimonies.
I'm going to start with Tim and David.
Tim, you talked specifically about the collection of data. We've heard from a number of witnesses that a lot of it is anecdotal or self-reporting. The last witnesses we had do data collection once a year, in March.
Do you have a suggestion, or is there a program that you think would be the best for having a model nationally for organizations like yourselves to start tracking the data and to pool it? Is it maybe a CRM system?
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness
Right now we're working with 38 communities around the country through our 20,000 homes campaign. Part of that process is something called a by-name list. It is real-time, person-specific data on everyone experiencing homelessness.
That's an approach that has been used successfully with veteran homelessness in the U.S. Having that real-time data is really key to understanding not only what they need but how they move through the system, and to being able to respond, adapt and tailor responses. There's a lot of information out there on it that I'd be happy to share.
We have those systems in place now in 11 communities, and 24 others are working on it. Most communities can get them in place in about 18 to 24 months.
4:50 p.m.
New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.
That would be very helpful. Not that you want to be measuring and being that objective, but really, that's part of planning, programming and investment, as well as trying to track the success of not having a veteran returning episodically to the shelter so many times.
We've heard a number of comments about Veterans Affairs Canada. This would go to all three of you gentlemen. Maybe I will start with Mr. Pearce, because you're here.
Do you have a recommendation for a better role for Veterans Affairs that could be more amenable to what veterans are actually looking for?
4:50 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Old Brewery Mission
I think the rub is not with the role. The role it intends to play is a valuable one for veterans.
It's more how it rolls out, and the amount of red tape involved. As the minister had said, there was a previous culture of “how can we not provide support” as opposed to “how can we provide support”. I think shifting our thinking toward veterans.... To bounce off Tim's point, whether or not their homelessness is related to their military experience is almost not germane to this. It matters that someone at one point had a career and gave their readiness to put their lives on the line in the service of the country. I think we owe it to them after that, and that's the connection between Veterans Affairs and homeless veterans.
I think the role is fine. I think it's pushing obstacles out of the way, listening carefully to homeless vets, and asking them why they're so darned angry. You've probably heard that around the table if you've been speaking to some of them.
I'll stop there, have a drink of water and let Tim and David go ahead.
4:55 p.m.
President, Homes for Heroes Foundation
There is a lot of red tape involved with the process. Once you get through and into it with a caseworker and they're working with you, I think that Veterans Affairs is actually doing a good job. They have a lot of good programs.
Too many times, they were shutting down some of their offices. I don't think that was a smart move. Moving some of those programs into charity hands was not a good idea. Keeping those offices open and having that direct contact, to me, is a better way to handle it. You're dealing with people within Veterans Affairs who have that experience. You're moving into some charities that don't have the experience at all, and claim to. Not enough research is being done into those charities.
However, with Veterans Affairs there is that red tape, and people are getting frustrated with it.
The general public really has no idea of the whole umbrella of services that Veterans Affairs offers.
4:55 p.m.
New Brunswick Southwest, Lib.
In that regard, how do we better inform the public, veterans and organizations like yours of all the services that are now available? How we can make changes based on listening?
