Veterans Affairs Committee on June 9th, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Eyolfson, go ahead.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

This is for the staff from the Department of National Defence.

Not just in the military but in society in general, we know that there is a stigma to mental illness, and even more so with PTSD in the military environment. Can you make any recommendations on the military side to reduce the stigma around this condition?

[BGen Nicolas Eldaoud]

Yes, sir, absolutely, and thank you for your question on this matter.

The issue of mental health, and certainly the stigma within the Canadian Armed Forces, is absolutely recognized, and from the top. Obviously, I am referring to General Jonathan Vance, our Chief of the Defence Staff.

The way we handle this.... The number one enterprise is the chain of command talking about it. Our surgeon general is very involved and committed to making sure that mental health within the CAF is a recognized issue and that the chain of command sees it as a condition that exists among the ranks that we need to talk about. That is why we are very involved.

Bell Let's Talk, for example, is one initiative we embrace. We are doing this with Bell, and for the last few years we have been extremely involved. Every year this thing goes on and improves, to the point where.... General Vance usually gets all his general officers together twice a year. The last time we did that, when he got us together, the subject of that two-day conference was mental health, and he had it right in the middle of the Bell Let's Talk event, just to show you how important it is.

It is about the chain of command talking about it, recognizing the issue, understanding what the issue is, and encouraging people to just say it and not be concerned about any repercussions that could come. There shouldn't be any repercussions. Most of those mental health issues are within the universality of service. We keep people. This issue of “If you have a mental health problem, we will release you” is a myth that we are trying to destroy.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Do you think we have an opportunity to change the way that universality of service exists? It seems that there are members who have expressed that they're afraid to ask for help because they say they're going to lose their job. We've had a number of veterans who've said to us that they were starting to have nightmares over the things they saw in combat. They went to see their commanding officer and asked for help, and one thing led to another and they are now out of the military. It all seemed to start with “You can't go out in the battlefield. You're done with universality of service.”

It sounds as though there needs to be some change to that process, because that's the provision that seems to be the barrier. There are too many personnel who are asking for help that had implications for universality of service, and this is what led to everything going south for them.

[BGen Nicolas Eldaoud]

Thank you for that.

Absolutely, and it's very recognized.

Part of understanding the problem and talking about it is getting our soldiers to realize that a lot of soldiers are serving today with PTSD, and there's no issue about it. They're medicated and they're getting the help they need, but they're still wearing their uniform because you can have PTSD and still meet universality of service.

That line of universality of service is a prerequisite or a condition, but it is the basic common one, which means that it's a myth to think that because you have a mental health problem, wound, or issue, you cannot serve anymore. If it's to a point where it's very aggravated, yes, we could go to the point where you cannot serve anymore. We're talking about a few cases. A lot of people have mental health issues, wear this uniform, and do a great job.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

There are a lot of veterans at their level who are reluctant to ask for help with mental health and PTSD, for much the same reasons. It's the stigma and this sort of thing.

Can you think of ways to improve the situation with veterans to help them to ask for help?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

As stated earlier, one of the things that we are doing is this post-release follow-up. We're doing it with those veterans who were originally deemed to be minimally at risk. However, what we find out is that quite often veterans don't either self-identify—as you're pointing out—or they don't come looking for services immediately after their transition. It may take several years. This follow-up is incredibly important to us, because we need to continuously reach out and we need to ensure the overall health of our veterans.

In terms of the reaching out, we now have the OSI clinics, we have the other support clinics, there's often peer-to-peer information, and we have online services. There are a multitude of ways in which we not only reach out, but that the veteran can come to us as well.

I'd like to turn to my colleagues, Robert in particular, because Robert deals with—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'm sorry, but we're out of time for this question.

[Elizabeth Douglas]

I'm sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Bezan, you have five minutes.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for being here today and for their support to our serving men and women in uniform and to our veterans.

Captain Langlois, how many people right now are employed in the JPSU?

[Capt(N) Marie-France Langlois]

We have 428.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

That counts reservists as well, or just regular force?

[Capt(N) Marie-France Langlois]

It's a staff of regular force members, reservist members, and civilians.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I've heard from military members who are transitioning out of the service that one of the things that makes them fairly anxious in transitioning out is that the credentials that they have through their various fields of employment within the Canadian Armed Forces are often not recognized when they transition into civilian life.

Have Canadian Armed Forces started to look at how we can provide a civilian Red Seal, for example, for mechanics, for aviation, or things of that nature?

[Capt(N) Marie-France Langlois]

Je vous remercie de votre question.

In the transition services cell, we're actually looking at matching those qualifications.

For example, for somebody who was in the infantry, it's hard to find an equivalent in civilian life. There's a project right now looking at finding those qualifications that can be of value in civilian life for those trades or occupations that you would find on the civilian streets.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

In addition to the problem of the armed forces credentials, every province makes its own decisions. For the Red Seal program, there are different qualifications that are required.

[Capt(N) Marie-France Langlois]

Exactly.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I know that the United States has used monster.com, the employment website, to help with that transfer of information and to make those new credentials more accessible and understandable for employers who are looking at veterans moving into civilian life.

[Capt(N) Marie-France Langlois]

Monster.ca is also in connection with the transition services cell. We're looking at different third party organizations to assist us in the transition of military personnel.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

One thing I also hear about from serving members and veterans is the issue of medial records, and the transfer of those medical records to the VAC files. Has that been streamlined at all in the last few months, or are there still some hiccups along the way?

[Capt(N) Marie-France Langlois]

There's actually a working group for this. I could defer that question to my VAC colleagues.

[Elizabeth Douglas]

Thank you.

As previously noted, there has been an improvement over the past year, and there has been a working group looking into this to try to identify what those barriers are. In terms of the length of time it took to transfer records, we have gone down from 35 days a year ago to 19 days now. We are continuously looking for ways to improve that, whether it's using technology or a closer working relationship. We have recognized that as being a problem, and we are working to correct it.

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

I had a conversation with the National Defence and Canadian Armed Forces ombudsman, Gary Walbourne, who used to be the deputy ombudsman over in Veterans Affairs. He's suggesting that rather than having our veterans who are being medically released go through another medical assessment done through VAC, there's a possibility that we should be using the surgeon general as the be-all and end-all in making the determination on medical release. He also suggests that it be the factor determining how they are handled by VAC, whether it's through SISIP or any of the other programs, based upon their medical condition.

Have there been any discussions between the two of you on that in that working group?

[BGen Nicolas Eldaoud]

The surgeon general's organization does exactly that. It determines the medical reason for release. It determines whether or not a member needs to be released for medical reasons and why. That's already being done by the surgeon general.