Veterans Affairs Committee on June 9th, 2016

[James Bezan, Conservative, Selkirk—Interlake—Eastman, MB]

Is that recognized by VAC?

[BGen Nicolas Eldaoud]

Yes. In the medical files that we have, there is always third party information. When we send it to VAC, Access to Information and Privacy tells us that we need to make sure we give them information on the person, on the veteran, and not on anybody else. We have to go through it to take this third party information out, but that's about all we do. The rest of the information just goes to VAC for their assessment, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Great. Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen, we have three minutes, and then we'll take a five-minute break and come back with a short round of questioning.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I have so many questions.

My understanding is that medical records go out, but without observation, and it's VAC that makes the judgment in regard to the benefit.

You have the expertise in terms of being able to take that raw data and identify the problems that exist. I mean the nuanced ones, above and beyond your four key categories, because when we get into the nuanced problems, that seems to be where the difficulty lies.

Do you have the medical expertise to take that file and assess it?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

Yes, we do have the medical expertise.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay.

[Elizabeth Douglas]

I would just like to state that this is outside of my purview. We do have a director general who is responsible for adjudication, and I would like to refer these questions to him, perhaps at another date, or come back with answers to your questions.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

That would be very helpful.

I want to get into the area of mental health issues. If DND has a member who is clearly fragile in terms of possible suicide, does that information come forward when the individual is released? Is VAC aware of that high risk in terms of potential suicide?

[Capt(N) Marie-France Langlois]

Normally, a member of the Canadian Forces will not be released if he's not stabilized, in the sense of his condition. The medical information, the diagnosis, that's contained in the medical file will be passed on to Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

You're saying that anything related to issues of mental illness would be in the medical file, yet we're seeing suicides post-release and we're very concerned about that.

I had a question about My VAC Account. One of the things that we heard from witnesses was that the first thing that happens when you go into My VAC Account is a question about your banking information. It seems to upset a great many people. Is there is a gentler and less intimidating way of bringing a veteran into the My VAC Account process? Have you thought about that?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

The reason the banking information and the GCKey are there is the way in which the Government of Canada can secure online information. It is a whole-of-government solution that has been put forward by Treasury Board Secretariat.

That said, we too recognize that veterans are struggling with it. From a usability design perspective, we know that this is one of the greatest barriers. What we have done is put a pop-up screen on My VAC Account, and it actually will delineate why this is happening and the steps that one must go through to log on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

We'll recess for five minutes and then we'll come back with the next round of questioning.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you. I'd like to call the meeting back to order.

In terms of time allotment, since we're going to give a wrap-up to each organization, I'd like to start with five minutes in the second round.

We'll start with Mr. Kitchen. I believe you're going to split your time with Mr. Clarke.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I am, if I give him some time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Okay. I'm talking very slowly to get him back here, if you notice.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

I'm going to follow up on Ms. Mathyssen's question at the very end, dealing with the very first thing that the veterans see on My VAC Account, which is the issue of their finances.

Can you not just move that to the end of the document so that they can fill out all their information, and then give the nice part at the end? If that's the first thing they see, they're going to get their back up and shut down. How hard is it to do that?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

We do have to follow processes and standards set out as to how we align and set up our website, but of course we can look at it and see if it would work.

The other piece is that we've had tremendous growth with the My VAC Account over the last two years. It's been literally 1,000%. We're working with and going to be looking at training some of our veterans service agents and those working in the field office so that when veterans come in, we can assist them with it if they find it is really difficult. We have heard this before; this is not the first time.

We also do usability work in our design. We work with veterans around that usability work. Just as you are saying, sometimes there is concern. Are people going to go directly into my banking information and find out what's in my bank accounts if I use my banking password to log on? We do fully recognize that, and we certainly will continue to work to improve.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Okay, great. Thank you.

I have another question for you. Can you break down the number of veterans who use the earning loss benefit according to their previous rank, as in how many privates are using it or how many corporals are using it? If you can't do that today, can you provide us with that information?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

I don't have that information today, but I will certainly go back, and if we can break that data down, absolutely, we will share it with you.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

Mr. Clarke, do you...?

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay. Yes, of course.

Mr. Eldaoud, I would like to go back to the medical reports, the CF 98 form, and the surgeon general.

I have also met with Ombudsman Walbourne. I understand that you really want to protect the doctors' privilege to provide a diagnosis. Their role is to provide care, not to be part of the decision to grant benefits or not. However, your ombudsman seems to tell us that, despite that, we have to do things differently.

At the moment, when the surgeon general makes a diagnosis, even though he is very aware that a knee injury happened in Kandahar on such-and-such a date, for example, he does not put that on the CF 98 form, the medical report. Am I right on that?

[BGen Nicolas Eldaoud]

I will answer that, sir, but I do not have all the details. You are asking a very specific question.

The example you used was of a leg injury sustained in Kandahar. In all honesty, I cannot imagine that there can even be any confusion about a case like that. As you just said, the CF 98 form is a document that soldiers fill out with the assistance of their chains of command; it allows the event to be linked to the date and place where it took place. Even the chain of command indicates on the document whether, in its view, the injury is service-related. The commander signs the document, not the medical support chain. That allows the doctors to do their jobs. We are talking about the same event. There is no secret as to the location and time when events took place, but that is of no concern to the doctors.

However, other documents are given to veterans, specifically the CF 98 form that you just mentioned and the medical report containing the doctor's diagnosis. Those are the documents that say that it is clear, for example, that a soldier will never walk again, and that he is entitled to certain benefits.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

However, your surgeon general cannot mention when the event took place in his report.

[BGen Nicolas Eldaoud]

I cannot answer that specific question, sir. I do not know what the medical document contains. Clearly, that information is protected by the Access to Information Act and the Privacy Act. I do not know.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Very quickly.

What? The time is up already?