Veterans Affairs Committee on June 13th, 2016

[Walter Callaghan]

It is both. The stigma is also still real. There have some been some shifts in it depending on what trades and what units you're looking at. There's still quite a bit of stigma in the infantry and the combat arms, but within the service trades the stigma seems to have alleviated a bit, but there's still that issue of, am I polluted, am I sick, am I diseased? The language itself creates an actual level of statement. The fear of being termed weak, or incapable, or not capable, especially with the hyper-masculine identity that all soldiers have, becomes a thorn that causes more harm.

On top of that there is a liability issue that's occurring and there's also—as I was alluding to in my previous response—this fear of losing their job, of losing your place in life, your meaning. This has to do with the whole thing of the universality of service—which I know you guys have heard about before—that the moment you're not able to be deployed, that's it, you're out the door.

Knowing there's a psychiatric condition, you're likely to be put on meds that are going to mess with your mind, which creates a liability issue, which in turn invokes the issue of universality of service; or, if you're not on meds, you're going to be on long-term therapy. My psychotherapy has been going on for several years and we're still just scratching the surface of the hell that occurred. If you're stuck in a position of requiring ongoing treatment for longer than six months, you can't be deployed, and therefore you breach the universality of service and you're out the door.

On all these levels there's a self stigma, there's a societal stigma, there's a liability issue, there are all these things. It's not one single thing that's actually causing all of it; it's this interwoven mesh that, especially when you're in crisis, makes it that I can't do that, I can't continue, but I need to continue, I can't reach out for help or it's all going to end.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

While you were talking before I had a sense that you had two messages, and I just want some clarity on that. You talked about the fact that your caseworker had failed to tell you that when one set of benefits was exhausted you were entitled to extended benefits. But you also said that your caseworker went above and beyond in trying to help you. I'm wondering, is it a matter of caseworkers being harried, overworked, with not enough resources, or did you have a sense that it could be training? What was your...?

[Walter Callaghan]

I've had three different case managers. The first one went above and beyond. She was a saving grace for me and got me benefits I hadn't even been aware of. She also helped me get through all the paperwork and, in some cases, did the paperwork for me. She went way beyond. I don't know what happened to her, because she got transferred. All of us who had been working under her ended up pretty pissed about that, because here was someone who was actually taking an active interest in our well-being.

My second case manager was pretty good but a little scatterbrained. He had been working in Veterans Affairs. He ended up retiring, so that's how I ended up losing him. He was pretty good at figuring out what needed to be done but didn't always follow up in a timely fashion.

My third case manager seems to be so overwhelmed by the sheer number of clients she has that she's scattering all over the place and is having that much more difficulty following up.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Is your third case manager someone you still interact with?

[Walter Callaghan]

We interact when I actually manage to get through to her, or when she finally decides, “Oh, wait. I should call Walter. I haven't talked to him in six months.” I finally heard from her two weeks ago, or last week, and it had been almost a year since I had previously heard from her. Again, because I was removed off of the rehab program, that also causes a complication where, as I understand it and as she explained it to me, technically I'm not eligible for a case manager.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

As part of a case manager's duties, would the protocol be that you must indicate and be able to show that you have contacted each of your clients on a regular, monthly or bi-monthly, basis?

[Walter Callaghan]

That would be nice. It may be even better if there were an easier mechanism for us to contact them.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Email?

[Walter Callaghan]

Email. The VAC thing and the 1-800 number thing do not work. Give us the ability to contact our case manager by email.

I do understand, from talking with my three different case managers, that one of the reasons behind not letting veterans contact their case managers directly by email was that, especially with people when they're in moments of psychological distress, sometimes they can be overbearing, make demands, and just hound the hell out of their case managers. I am aware that it happens.

However, we should actually have the ability to have that immediate contact or on a weekend to type up an email because I had forgotten this or I had heard about that and send it off. Okay, they work Monday to Friday, so you're not going to get the response until Monday. However, as a veteran, at least you know you've reached out, asked that question, and can track when they come back to you. If there's something that comes after 5 p.m. on a Monday, it's like, “Oh my God, what's going on? Why hasn't this happened?” or “I suddenly need this”, then the very next day you're going to get a response.

The way it happens right now with My VAC is that half the time you cannot get into the system in the first place. I've never managed to actually get into that system. The 1-800 number , from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.... Give us email.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Process-wise, we have Mr. Argue in the audience, who would like to join the panel. What I'd like to do, then, is just break for five minutes. Then Mr. Argue will come in and give his statement, and then we'll start with questions again, if we have the unanimous consent from the committee to do that.

We'll have a break for five minutes and then come back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We'll call the meeting back to order and welcome Mr. Argue to the committee.

Welcome this evening. We'll give you five to ten minutes for your opening statement.

[Reginald Argue, As an Individual]

I served in the Canadian military from October 2, 1986 to August 3, 1995. I joined the military a few months after I graduated high school, shortly after my 19th birthday. Barely a month after my 21st birthday, I was sitting over in Iran, only days after the eight-year war between Iraq and Iran ended. I saw the horrendous end result of war and in 1995 I found myself wanting to leave the military. I left the military with an honourable discharge. I had knee problems and I found out later that my lung problem originated in the military.

Since leaving the military, I've gone through homelessness, I've gone through a whole bunch of different stuff. When I went to Veterans Affairs and applied for my pension the first time in 1996, I ended up getting 5% for my knees. Since that date I now have 30% for both my knees. I was told at that time, in 1997, don't apply for anything else, that I would never get it again.

Since that time my health went downhill severely. At the end of 2006 I was put on the earnings loss benefit. Since that time they sent me for rehab. They decided that they were going to throw a medicine ball with me. I explained to the person they sent to do this with me that I had two bad shoulders and please not to do this. After three or four times of telling her no, she persuaded me to do it. At that time I heard a loud snapping sound in my shoulder. I tore my right shoulder right there.

You have to excuse me. One problem I have is that I don't get enough oxygen in my brain at times. I basically have between 50% to 74% breathing capability, so sometimes my mind will go in and out on me.

Even though I have these problems, I did talk radio from 2007 right up until November 23, 2010. I've also done the occasional video interview from 2011 right up to now. In 2014, I formed Veterans in Politics Canada and I go out and do the occasional interview.

I was told about a year and a half ago by my case worker that they had removed me from the earnings loss benefit, and they put me on the permanent impairment allowance. Because of the health problems I have, they say I may never work a full-time job again in my life.

I'm sorry. Sometimes my mind goes in and out on me. I do apologize for that.

One of the problems that I'm noticing with doing all these interviews—we did an interview with Retired Major Mark Campbell, who tragically lost both his legs over in Afghanistan; one with retired Master Corporal Paul Franklin; and with David MacDonald and others who have been injured—is that Veterans Affairs at times has not done everything they could have done to help the veterans. The lump sum payment has really come up short. A lot of the veterans who are hurt right now should be getting the monthly medical pension.

I agree that the new Veterans Charter is vastly different from the old veterans charter, but it's a living entity that we have to constantly improve upon. It's nice to see there is a standing committees like this that is listening to people and their input and everything.

I was going to say a whole bunch more stuff, but I'm sorry, my mind just went out on me. What I'm trying to do is to show people who have health problems and have disabilities to never to give up, and even with Walter here, I say never give up, because we have to show the rest of the world and the rest of Canada that other changes are possible. We also have to be proud of people who served in the military. The veteran community is an important part of what Canada is.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

We'll start the next round of questioning.

Mr. Bratina.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks for your presentation.

I have lots of questions. Can either of you tell me whether there's any clawback when you get these allowances. You said you can't work full-time, but you may have other sources of income. Do you have other sources of income other than your military...?

[Reginald Argue]

No, I don't have any other sources of income. What I've been told is that if I make any money at all, even a penny, it will be claw backed from me immediately. That's with Veterans in Politics Canada, a non-profit organization I formed. There's no money made at all. There's my money that's being put in there. I've created a platform for people who have amazing stories to come and share them, whether it's first responders or other veterans, or even ordinary Canadians.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Go ahead, please.

[Walter Callaghan]

With the clawbacks, there is a slight issue of how SISIP and VAC work on this as well, and what stage of the rehabilitation programs you're at. My understanding, as it is right now, is with the rehabilitation program, so long as you're on it, you're able to make a certain amount of money, up to a certain tier, then it starts getting claw backed. The initial amount is 50¢ on the dollar, then once you hit a certain amount, it's dollar per dollar.

Now, again, one of these issues that does not tend to get talked about is where the reserves fall in with a whole different ball game, a whole different kettle of worms of it being messed up.

Prior to 2012, with Bill C-55 coming in, which changed our deemed salary from $2,000 to $2,700, regardless of the stage of rehabilitation that we were at, we were able to work with an offset of 50¢ on the dollar. That allowed us to make up that gap, because the way the ELB, the earnings loss benefit, and SISIP's long-term disability work is that it's 75% of your salary, or the deemed salary in this case. The way that the 50¢ on the dollar offset worked was that it actually allowed you to make up to that amount, to make up that 25% difference. Then you started getting dollar for dollar docked off.

You could actually get back up to that level, and it was an incentive to go back to work. With the changes that occurred with Bill C-55 in 2012, when they shifted us up from $2,000 to $2,700 as a deemed salary, the way that SISIP turned around and managed this change, and the way that VAC managed this change, the 75% of $2,700 was $2,050. It was more than the previous deemed salary. They turned around and argued. I actually have correspondence from a former minister of Veterans Affairs under the previous Harper government, trying to go, oh no, this is actually what we mean to do. You're losing all of this because, well, your 75% is above the previous deemed salary. This increase that we gave you under Bill C-55, that makes up the difference that you could have actually made, the offset amount.

I don't want to swear. I nearly swore, I'm sorry about that. It did create an adverse situation for me. In it's current iteration, because Bill C-55 only shifted things last year, and I only finally got approved for the increase, the addition of ELB on top of the LTD—that whole confusing thing—I have not had employment income since that came into effect. I've been a Ph.D. student. I do occasionally get the opportunity to work as a teaching assistant. When I previously did that, it was docked dollar for dollar, thanks to the Bill C-55 change. I have not had a TA shift since Bill C-55 occurred, so I don't know yet whether I'm going to be docked dollar for dollar. The indication that I've had, because I'm also no longer on the rehabilitation program, is that I will automatically be docked dollar for dollar.

Did I make a confusing situation more confusing?

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

No, no. It's similar in the municipal world with Ontario Works people who are getting assistance. When they get a job and they lose their assistance, they might lose their subsidy on their apartment and so on. I think that's something we need to consider and get even more documentation on.

With regard to the culture, I was in radio too. For 20 years I did football broadcasting. Military is military; the only thing that comes close is professional football. A starting fullback got on the plane to Winnipeg for one game, and shared with me that he had been diagnosed with a broken rib. He was afraid to tell the coach for a couple of reasons: one, you don't want to let the team down and not be there, and two, you're gone—“Next.” On another occasion, a player who finished the season with an injury was told, “We like you, and we're going to sign you to a new two-year contract.” Great; he signed the two-year contract. Then he was told that he now had to pass the physical.

The culture seems to be a problem in many cases that we've heard. We've heard a very positive approach to culture from Ms. Northey. Have you any suggestions on how the military could adjust that culture? It seems to be a tough one.

[Walter Callaghan]

This will probably be controversial and get me a lot of hate mail, but let's maybe shift it out of the toxic form of hyper-masculinity that's there and get rid of the idea of “Suck it up, sunshine.” Let's get out of that hard-core aspect. We can do these jobs without having that toxic form of behaviour.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Reginald.

[Reginald Argue]

I've gone through just what Walter talked about. I've seen that.

When I was serving in the military, there was this form of “suck it up”. I saw a lot of the people who used to go to the MIR because they had health problems be called “MIR commandos”. We need to stop that. The fact is that a lot of people get injured in the military, and they can prove it, but if they're not allowed to go to the MIR because of the fact that everyone else will call them MIR commandos, then when it comes to pension time people will go, “Oh, that's not service-related.” We need to get away from that.

At the same time, I'd like to suggest that Veterans Affairs create a platform whereby other veterans and people getting out of the military can come together and share what's happened to us. We can see that we're not alone. One of the biggest things I'm noticing out there, when I'm talking to people....

Take Glenn Cumyn, the person who started Heroes Hockey Challenge. His father, Jim Cumyn, served 35 years in the military. When he started talking about serving over in the Suez Canal, he started crying during the interview. That right there tells me it's time that we come together. Let's get all of us veterans together, sharing our stories, and let's create that community. Let's start the conversation. That's one way I can see that would help to finally bring the healing.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I have a final thing, and then we can move on to other questioners. This is with regard to the notion of the reserves versus the regular service.

We have a large reserve group in our city. As far as I know, the men and women I talk to consider themselves soldiers. We had the terrible incident of Nathan Cirillo being shot and killed at the National War Memorial. I've always wondered and worried about his colleague standing just a few feet away, about how he might have to deal with the post-traumatic stress that would likely come from being in that situation.

So is it the same for reservists?

[Walter Callaghan]

As in our response to these conditions?

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

No, not the response; I mean in terms of services that he might be able to access.

[Walter Callaghan]

That's actually a really good question, whether an individual in that situation would be able to get immediate care within the military. He's probably on a class A assignment right now. I don't know what the nature of the memorial guard contract is. I don't know if that's a class B, 180 under, or if it's a class A. If he was a class B, perhaps he should be eligible; even if he was a class A, perhaps he should if he came forward.

I can't speak to whether or not he did come forward, but just hypothesizing, he should have been eligible to receive immediate treatment the moment he came forward while he was still serving.