Veterans Affairs Committee on June 16th, 2016

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's interesting.

In closing, I would like to point out that the name of your organization, the Bureau of Pensions Advocates, does not necessarily reflect current realities. In fact, the new system does not deal with pensions alone.

[Anthony Saez]

Yes, it's for pensions and awards, and you're absolutely right that the name may be a little obsolete now.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Now we are going to split between Mr. Bratina and Mrs. Romanado.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you to you and your team for what you're doing to help our veterans.

You mentioned that there are 30 lawyers, approximately 350 cases a year, and 195 completed per year. As my colleague was mentioning, there is obviously a bit of a backlog.

What is the average amount of time from when a veteran applies for the review through your service until the initial analysis is done and the decision is made as to whether it will be counselled out or it will go ahead? What is the timeline for that?

[Anthony Saez]

It depends on the particular circumstances of the case. Some are very simple, very straightforward, and it could be a matter of days. Some may be more complex on the medical front and may require a little more research on behalf of the lawyer. Some may require either a very basic legal argument, which could be done quickly within a matter of days, or they may require a charter argument. We've had a few of those, which would take much longer. It depends on the particular circumstances. It could be anything between days and weeks, depending on the particular case.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

But normally we're not talking about months?

[Anthony Saez]

Generally, we're not, but that's not to say that occasionally that might not happen.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

In terms of staffing, you mentioned approximately 100 people working at BPA, 30 of them being lawyers. Do you have legal aides assisting lawyers as well?

[Anthony Saez]

We have what we call legal assistants. They are PM-1 level, and they provide the initial contact with the client to make sure that, as soon as they can after the application comes in or the first contact comes in, they communicate with the client so that they know when the lawyer will be addressing their file. They have that support from legal assistants.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you very much. You deal with veterans and still-serving Canadian Forces members. What is the relationship between Veterans Affairs and the case managers? Is there any specific relationship that you can speak to?

[Anthony Saez]

It's mostly around departmental reviews. When the client comes in and says they applied to Veterans Affairs for benefits and they were turned down or they didn't get as much as they were hoping to get, we'll look at the file and we'll say that if we do x instead of going to the board, the department may approve. We'll actually get in touch and work with the department and say, “I have this case that the veteran wants to go to the board with; however, what do you think about...?” whatever the option might be, and we will work with the department to see if that will work as a solution.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

The case manager is usually the specific direct contact of the veteran, but you're not interacting with that individual, except on a broad department basis.

[Anthony Saez]

No, generally the case management side of VAC is dealing with other issues unrelated to what we do in the pension and lump sum award disability benefits.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Yes, but quite often the case manager is filling out the forms for the individual, who may be in some state of duress at the time.

Bearing that in mind, is there any way that we could improve the service to vets from VAC's point of view, or are you satisfied with the ebb and flow of business as you see it?

[Anthony Saez]

I think the biggest challenge is the one around the evidence that needs to be collected in order to proceed to the board, and that evidence most often has to do with medical reports. It can be difficult at times, first of all, to find a family doctor to provide that report, and secondly, sometimes the family doctor's medical report isn't sufficient. As you go up the chain into the specialist world it becomes even more difficult.

We do pay for it for them. We'll pay for a specialist's report, but we have to be able to find a specialist to do it.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Are you able to say whether there are any differences or similarities between veterans applying and still-serving members applying? Are the files easier for a still-serving member?

[Anthony Saez]

No. Generally I would say it's almost the reverse. An older veteran presents with issues that are more easily dealt with. They're more related to, as I said earlier, musculoskeletal, physical things that you can see. The modern-day veterans, although they also present with those issues, are presenting with more psychiatric conditions, which are much more difficult to deal with.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I see. Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Now we're into the five-minute sessions, and we start with Mr. Kitchen.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you very much for being here today. Your report is excellent. Thank you for providing that for us, because it makes it harder for us to ask questions when you've got all the answers in the report.

You mentioned that initially after WW II we had a lot of vets who came back, became lawyers, and got involved in this process. Do any of those lawyers now have military experience, and to what extent?

[Anthony Saez]

Yes, I'll give you an example. At the bureau we have four areas in the country: West, Ontario, Quebec, and Atlantic, and each one of those areas is headed by an area director. Three of those four area directors are former military people, either from the JAG branch or from the regular force. A number of our lawyers also have former military experience with the JAG, or as soldiers, and a number of them have reserve experience as well.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you.

You've provided us with some stats, 300 to 350 cases, and you expect to have 195 cases per year. I'm a health care practitioner. Are these excessive loads for the individual lawyer?

[Anthony Saez]

The 195 per se is not. We recognized that in the last few years cases are getting more complex, so that number has dropped from over 200. I can't remember what the exact figure was a number of years ago, but it has dropped to 195. It's the growing complexity that makes it difficult, first of all, but the 195 isn't the issue, it's handling all the work that's generated by the others that are coming in behind. With people calling and correspondence, file maintenance distracts from being able to focus entirely on the 195.