Veterans Affairs Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2016

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Very helpful, yes. Thank you.

Did you have anything to add?

[Debbie Lowther]

One thing I will say, which Mr. Kitchen mentioned earlier, is that when a person joins the military, the whole family joins. At the end of that career, if the member is struggling with PTSD, the whole family also suffers.

One thing I know the department has done is they've increased psychological counselling to include spouses and children, which I think is a great, positive step. I do agree that we could be taking better advantage of the other resources that are available, instead of, like Nora said, letting them try to do it all themselves. Why reinvent the wheel? If the services are there, then access them.

[Nora Spinks]

We need to make sure that we balance the prevention and early intervention with the crisis intervention. We want to prevent people from ending up on the street. We want to prevent people from ending up in the emergency department. When they do, we want the emergency department to be ready to embrace them, to serve them, and to link them to the appropriate services.

If we're able to do that, then we can catch our breath and relax a bit, because we know that they're getting the services that they need. Then we can start proactively working with them to ensure that we can focus on prevention.

We have to have a balance between the two.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Ms. Mathyssen.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for being here.

I want to say that the work of the Vanier Institute is known across the country. I've had the privilege of working with local representatives of Vanier. Ms. Lowther, thank you for caring about vets and acting on that care.

I have a number of questions. I hope I can get through some of them. It's a very impressive description, Madam Spinks, of what Vanier is doing in terms of cobbling together services and bringing organizations together to focus on what can be done. I found it almost exhausting, thinking about what needs to go into that.

What services are currently available that have been provided? What's lacking? Where are the holes in what we have currently?

[Nora Spinks]

Let me answer the second part first: what are we lacking?

I think what's really clear in the research we've been doing, and in the consultations and the round tables that we've been privileged to be a part of, is that families often feel isolated and alone.

This is about being able to create a sense of community both within and among the military and veteran community, but also within the neighbourhoods within which they live and work, so that if you have a child who has autism, or a child who's interested in hockey, or a teenager who's interested in drama, you know you can access those services in your neighbourhood. Also, it's so you know that those service providers will understand when you get relocated, or are new to a neighbourhood, or are dealing with a family situation such as trying to adjust to a transition or managing a mental health issue.

That's a big gap right now, which a lot of families have been identifying. They're not feeling connected. They're feeling isolated and alone, and they're feeling that they're the only ones who are experiencing what they're experiencing. As Debbie mentioned, when you're living it, it's really hard to find the extra energy to go out and create that community, so we want to make sure that it's available prior to that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

The well-being of the family assists the well-being of the veteran.

[Nora Spinks]

Yes, and the research shows very clearly that the health of the family is critical to the health of the veteran.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

That makes sense.

Also, in terms of the experiences of reservists and their families, are they different from those of regular CF members, from that personnel?

[Nora Spinks]

We've identified a couple of things with the reservists. When we talk about military and veteran families, we include reservists in that umbrella. For us, when we talk to military families, they consider themselves a military family regardless of their status, whether they're released or not—a military family once, a military family always.

The reservists were actually one of the catalysts that got us sparked into working in this area in building community, because reservists are everywhere, and they can come from any town and any village. They're our neighbours. They're everywhere. They're not just near a base, a wing, a military family resource centre, or even a veterans centre. In particular, it's really about the reservists who need, more than any other group, access to community resources. If you're in Hudson Bay, Saskatchewan, and you're a reservist who's just come back from theatre, you need to access services in Hudson Bay, Saskatchewan.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

We've heard a great deal about the tragedy of suicide. In fact, there was a presentation on the Hill just this week that dealt with the fact that veterans are coming back and feeling not just disconnected but as if they cannot possibly reach out. On the impact of suicide on the families, have you taken a close look at that? What can you tell us?

[Nora Spinks]

There are a couple of things. Suicide is tragic. It can often be prevented if the right services and supports are in place.

Often, we hear that for people who have attempted suicide, one of the things that makes it seem impossible is the pressure that they feel their families are being put under because of their illness. If we can support the family, and if we can strengthen the family and the community, then we're in a much better position to ensure the necessary resources are there as a significant part of suicide prevention.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Colonel Mann.

[Col Russell Mann]

If I could just back up to your very first question about reserves and regular forces and whether there are differences, I would like to put one thing out there that is a bit of a challenge for all of us who are trying to reach out, collaborate, and care. That's the fact that a lot of the research we have is helping inform us about the families of regular force members.

There is a research gap. We're trying to work with CIMVHR and with the director general of military personnel research and analysis, and any organization out there that is willing to try to research more on the reserve family experience.

We have a lot of anecdotal evidence. We have some reserve and National Guard experience from the States, and some territorial army evidence from the U.K., but we're lacking a good set of hard evidence on our reserves here at home that would make an apples-to-apples comparison.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'm sorry, but we've run out of time.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

I knew you were going to say that, Mr. Chair. I forgive you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Bratina.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

First of all, Ms. Spinks, the concept about not understanding is very interesting. Nobody knew about military families. One of the common things that we would be able to understand is the notion of the “military brat”. I was a military brat. What does that mean? That means we moved all the time. Is that still a common denominator for military families?

[Nora Spinks]

Certainly, moving is a common denominator, although that's changing as families are changing. Modern military families are no different from modern families in Canada who aren't in the military, so there's a greater likelihood that both spouses will be working, and the upheaval is not just about a trailing spouse with trailing kids, but often about straddling two different cities in two different parts of the country.

The other piece that I think is really important to understand is that the lack of knowledge or awareness isn't out of ignorance; it's out of opportunity. It's not that they don't want to know. They've just never had any pause or opportunity to actually learn.

We hear three things. One is about the military brat: that it's a small proportion and they all live on base. There's still that myth out there. The second myth is that the government takes care of everything that the military ever needs. The third one is that if you've been deployed you're going to be experiencing PTSD. There's that leap from one to the other, which we know isn't true. What the research shows is that it's not PTSD that's the number one issue. It's sleep disturbances, depression, and other things before and including some of the more severe experiences.

What's really important for us is to help people know what they don't know, undo the things that might not necessarily be true, and replace those with real knowledge and awareness.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

In terms of the work you do in reviewing the literature, the research, and so on, we have this rather unusual country in terms of its vastness. I've just visited my son, who's posted in Dawson Creek. I flew to Edmonton and drove the five hours to Dawson Creek. You can't take pictures of it because it's staggering, the breadth of our country, and what struck me, working as we do on this committee, were the little Legions here and there.

I'm wondering about it. It can't be the same as Germany, as an example. Do we have to create our own literature and research? Is there anything we can take from other countries? Should we be putting more into the unique characteristics of a Canadian military family?

[Nora Spinks]

I think there are two things, and I'm sure Russ has a lot of things to add.

We are all biological human beings, so anything related to that is universal, and we can learn from other countries quite easily. The actual military experience, and even the language we use, are very different from those of even the United States or the U.K., so that needs to be Canadianized or culturalized, or to be more local.

What we're trying to do is identify around the world the resources that are available and are of universal application. We don't need to start from scratch. We don't need to redo. Mental health is mental health worldwide, so let's learn from what's being done. Let's bring in what we can bring in. Let's partner where we can partner. Let's pool the resources, including the intellectual resources, the financial resources, and, increasingly, the technical resources—these apps and the tools that are available online—and make the best out of all of that.

We don't need to reinvent anything. We may need to culturalize—for sure—but we don't need to start from scratch.

[Col Russell Mann]

I can add to that.

It's exactly what Nora said: traumatic brain injury is a common injury, with common diagnostics and common presenting symptoms. How the veteran or the family will access supports to deal with that consequence of service can be very different in Canada.

I speak from the experience in my former employment of trying to make services accessible for military families in particular and for some of my peers. What's different is the legislative context. What's different are the organizational frameworks that veterans and their families have to access.

Take just a simple thing like provincial health care. All of a sudden, I can't rely on what I know from the States, or the U.K., or Australia. I have to work with 10 different provinces to try to get those provinces to understand. Then there are the provincial chapters for the Colleges of Physicians and Surgeons and provincial chapters for registered nurses.

When you talk about a family health team, you're dealing with an organization and a circle of support that is provincially regulated at many different layers: at the government layer, but also at the professional and organizational layers. That's the piece where we need to work I think very aggressively in this country to build awareness, understanding, and mindful interaction and engagement with veterans and their families.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mrs. Lockhart.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Lowther, I had the opportunity in Fredericton to participate in the boots on the ground walk. I don't want to say we weren't successful because we didn't find any homeless vets that day, because I think it's a good thing that we didn't; however, my take-away from it is that I had a lot of time to talk to the vets involved in that program. I found that their sense of purpose and having, as you say, a community to work on this together was very therapeutic for them. That's what they told me. They were able to get better and to help others.

Can you tell us a bit about how impactful you think it is for veterans to be reaching out to veterans? Is that a key part of the program?