Evidence of meeting #23 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was going.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
Veteran, Trauma Healing Centers
There are two, which are post-traumatic stress and chronic pain.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
All right. Thank you.
You had said, Mr. Bungay, that VAC is not referring people to your service. Have they given you a reason that they're not?
5:15 p.m.
Veteran, Trauma Healing Centers
No. I asked them to come here probably 500 times last year, to just sit in front of somebody and talk and explain. I've invited many officials to our Ottawa clinic.
We've had many days, open house days, where the Ottawa city police chief has left with so many brochures. I had to order another 1,000 because he knows his police officers can use the services. But Veterans Affairs has its own agenda.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I would like to ask this question of all of you. Essentially, have you used the veterans appeal board, and if yes, can you tell me about the experience?
Monsieur Doucette.
5:15 p.m.
Retired Peer Support Coordinator, Veteran, As an Individual
Yes, a couple of times. It's interesting. The reason that I ended up in front of the Veterans Review and Appeal Board was they didn't understand the cumulative effects on the human body after serving 30 years in the infantry. They wanted a specific target injury. “When did you fall?”... “I fell hundreds of times; I don't know how much that attributed to it.”
It wasn't a very good experience. It reminded me of an orders parade in the military. You're sitting there. They're on the other side of the table. They get a commissionaire. You give the oath. You have your lawyer...“I haven't done anything wrong. All I'm here for is to get you to realize I got hurt in the military.”
For the mental health guys, I've attended many review boards with a veteran who has a mental health concern because I would know that he was starting to melt down. I've stopped them. I've said, “We have to get him out of here and get him some air.”
We made recommendations on how to set up a circular table, and a bit of a "Hi, how are you doing, sir? Great weather”, but they march in, bing bang, “I'm so and so and so and so.” It's not a very good experience. In a lot of cases, the veteran isn't even asked to speak, it's all through his—
5:20 p.m.
Retired Peer Support Coordinator, Veteran, As an Individual
The VAC lawyer, yes. It's not something that people want to do.
A lot of them don't realize that you're only one step away from the big no, because all you have after that is to appeal your decision, and it's a paper appeal, and they can say no, and after that it's just up to you. So it's not good.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Okay. Thank you.
Are there any others in regard to VRAB? Yes, Mr. Garsch.
5:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Program Delivery, Shaping Purpose
I put in an appeal for the seizure disorder. I read the interpretation of what a major seizure was compared to their interpretation of the table and the appropriate timelines. Because I experienced it, I knew what a major one was, what it felt like, and what I went through. And their interpretation of my description of the seizure was that they were minor seizures.
5:20 p.m.
Volunteer Peer Support Advisor, Veteran, As an Individual
I went through one as well. As Mr. Doucette said, it was very much like night court. You have a quick briefing in the hallway with your lawyer, you're marched in very quickly, you plead your case, and it's over before you know what happened.
5:20 p.m.
Veteran, Trauma Healing Centers
I'm starting the process right now. Call me in a few months.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Okay. It sounds rather adversarial.
I wanted to get back to you, Monsieur Doucette.
You mentioned sexual assault in regard to injuries. One of the things that has become clear is that there's a reticence about talking about it and about addressing it. We went into the VAC website and there's nothing about sexual assault on that service page.
I wondered, do you regard that as a deficiency? Do you see it as a service-related injury, and should it be connected to mental health, like PTSD? We know that women who have been assaulted suffer that injury for a lifetime.
5:20 p.m.
Retired Peer Support Coordinator, Veteran, As an Individual
Within the military, I've dealt with probably five or six in the 10 years that I worked for the operational stress injury social support program.
As you say, it's a hidden thing. It happens, especially if you were sexually assaulted while serving, and there are things going on to try to track a person down.
DND is really—you've seen by the program that they announced a year ago or so about taking care of that side of the fence—still ham-handed at it. It should not be something determined by the military police. It should be civilian police, and it'll get done.
The hard part of the injury is dealing with it when you get back and fall under that microscope. We have all seen how it happens with women that it's up to you to prove that happened, instead of them working a system. Some of the ladies go through hell. It is service-related because they're overseas. As far as I'm concerned, anything that happens overseas is service-related. That's where most of the injuries happen.
It's sad. All VAC needs is a diagnosis of post-traumatic stress disorder related to service. They can get into details if you were blown up in Afghanistan or this and that, but I haven't heard any of the ladies I've dealt with who have had problems getting their claim, or their diagnosis, or whatever, through the system based on being sexually assaulted while in theatre. It's terrible, and it's something that DND has to look at. They can't sweep it under the table any more.
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
Thank you very much.
Thank you for that question, Ms. Mathyssen, because here we have four veterans who, by all accounts, are doing well now, and all of you have gone through the appeal board. I think it's important that we have an appeal process, but the fact that four out of four of you—I don't know if that's a random sampling or not—have experienced that, I think, is an acknowledgement that there's a problem with the process.
I don't want to finish by sugar-coating anything. I think you have all given great testimony that'll be helpful to us, but I often like to ask the question, is there anything we're doing right now that we shouldn't be in case we throw out the baby with the bathwater? Are there any positive things you see right now that show we're on the right track, or that we need to make sure we reinforce and that we can't stop doing? I hold that up to anyone.
5:25 p.m.
Volunteer Peer Support Advisor, Veteran, As an Individual
What we're doing right now is appreciated. The interest is there. We get the information from the sources. That can be done in reverse, too, by visiting units across Canada, as opposed to just making decisions in isolation. This kind of feedback, I think, is absolutely on the right track.
5:25 p.m.
Vice-President, Program Delivery, Shaping Purpose
I would say that CTAP has a multitude of programs in there that, if they're used appropriately, can be extremely beneficial for the vets. Those are the ones, if they know about them, then they can be accessed easily. It's just a question of being able to get the information to the vets, because sometimes when you're going through that process people are talking, but you're not hearing.
5:25 p.m.
Vice-President, Program Delivery, Shaping Purpose
Yes. It's the career transition assistance programs from DND. I know that CANVAC, which is contracted by VAC, provides vocational rehabilitation services, as well. I've never dealt with them, so I can't speak to that.
5:25 p.m.
Veteran, Trauma Healing Centers
I think along the same line as the guys. Veterans understand that what is being offered is still a little more than for some people who retire and who aren't in the military. Having two years with 75% pay to figure out your life.... Most of the people we talk to day to day we tell that two years is two years, but you're going to blink, and it's going to be gone, so you need to figure out what you're doing right now.
I think that offering help in those areas is definitely allowing veterans to concentrate on something and to see where they want to go on their path, and maybe they don't in the end. For example, I started off as a real estate agent because I was into housing and I liked that whole idea, so they paid for me to go to school and learn to be a real estate agent. That got me on my feet because I don't believe that a veteran sitting at home and doing nothing all day is beneficial to anybody. It's definitely not beneficial to him. Within months you'd be trying to blow your brains out.
I think that putting them in those services and allowing them to figure out what they need to do—go to school, get a job, or whatever—is something we are doing well, although I don't think that a timeline is a smart idea because, in that state of mind, you don't know what you want to do.
