Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 4th, 2016

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Hello. Thank you for being here. I'm a new member of the committee.

My questions are more factual, and they are for Mr. Garsch.

You said you were released. As Mr. Doucette mentioned, a military career is generally thought to last 35 years. However, based on what you told us, you were released very suddenly.

First, can you explain what happened?

Second, I want to know how long a military member remains in the army once he has been released.

Third, was the pension you received afterward established based on the number of years of service or your salary?

[Andrew Garsch]

I was notified by an administrative review. My case manager told me I was supposed to be out in six months. That actually didn't happen because the paperwork got lost, literally, for about a year. Because I didn't want to be in the Forces anymore, because I couldn't take being around it, I put in for a voluntary release. I wanted to be out in 30 days. I was told that, if I did that, then I would actually lose my medical pension that I was supposed to be receiving because I was being medically released. That's how that happened.

As for people who are being released, you have to be in the Forces for 10 years in order to receive a medical pension upon a medical release. It can very easily happen to people that, if they don't serve for the 10 years, they're being released medically, and that pension won't be sufficient to sustain the life that they're living at that point in time.

I believe you were asking how long it took me to receive my payments for my pension. I was released June 19, and I did not receive payment until the end of September or so.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

How is the pension calculated, for example, if you accumulated 10 years of service or less? Is it based on your salary or the number of years spent in the Canadian Forces?

[Andrew Garsch]

It's basically determined by the best five years of pay. If you're in for 10 years, then they take the average of your last five years' pay, and that's what you get a percentage of. I believe at that point in time it was 70% on average.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Now it's 90%.

If you have not done 10 years—

[Andrew Garsch]

You don't receive a medical pension.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Doucette, there seems to be transition issues. I'm also a member of the Standing Committee on National Defence, and two issues were brought to our attention regarding integration into civilian life. First, people aren't aware of the services provided, and second, it's difficult to obtain those services.

Regarding the first step, which is to be aware of the services provided, couldn't the Department of Defence prepare military members, for example, six years before the transition? That way, people wouldn't be presented with a fait accompli when they return to civilian life and need to find all the necessary information.

Could that be a solution? Could the Canadian Armed Forces prepare military members for their new life?

[Fred Doucette]

There are what we call local initiatives. In Valcartier, the brigade there has all kinds of initiatives that they've built and have in position. They've been really proactive with a lot of things that go on. Other bases like Petawawa and Gagetown are big army units, but the people are changing all the time. When I was working for OSISS, I would go see the new base commander, and I'd get a chance to brief him and make my inroads. Then two years later I would start all over again. Even at the upper levels of DND, I think a lot of the leadership isn't aware exactly what the details are of these soldiers who are going out.

One defence minister told me several years ago that they were dragging them through the front door and throwing them out the back. That was his comment, literally, throwing them out.

There are people who have a lot of education who could probably answer your question and tell you what to do where. The more preparation you give for that individual leaving, the better chance he's going to be able to move on successfully, and so on. It's not to say that everybody is like that. I know a lot of guys who have transitioned out, spent two years in community college, and are working full-time in jobs that they're enjoying. They were just as injured as anybody when they moved out. I think there has to be more push of their information forward. I don't know why it's not being done.

Here's an example. In 1985 they told us we had to start paying long-term disability. You have to have it, no choice. Before, you could opt in and out of it. I said, “Good stuff, long-term disability.” Those are the words. When I began working for OSISS, I was talking to a veteran, and he said, “Oh yeah, I've got to get this back to the insurance company, SISIP, because they're going to cut me off, it's been two years.” I said, “What do you mean?” He said, “I have to go see a doctor, get this filled out, and then my long-term disability will be able to carry on.” I said, “No.” He said, “Yes, it's two years and they come knocking, and if you can't back it up, then they cut it out.”

Here's something I had believed, that I was going to be taken care of as other soldiers would be on this long-term disability, but it had all these caveats. Nobody told us. We just assumed that it was long term.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, Mr. Doucette.

Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, each and every one of you, for your service to Canada and for being here today to share your experiences with us so that hopefully we can make some thoughtful recommendations.

I'd like to start with Mr. Bungay if I could.

You mentioned that your services are not recognized formally through VAC but it does pay the bill. By recognition, I suppose you mean it's not encouraging people to take advantage of your services. Is that right?

[Trevor Bungay]

That's right. We applied for the multidisciplinary through Veterans Affair Canada probably a year ago, and we've still had no response.

With our company, it's very easy for us to say “this is what we offer”, but that's just what we offer. If Veterans Affairs Canada or a veteran requires something else, whether it be education or some other form, we can do that. We can add in or take away anything that needs to happen. When somebody comes in our door, they see all of our staff, and then a health care plan is developed for that individual.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

You mentioned the number 3,000. Out of that number, how many are veterans of the Canadian Forces?

[Trevor Bungay]

About half of them are.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Has VAC paid for all of those or are some...?

[Trevor Bungay]

Yes.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

You say that you're opening new offices. It seems as though this is expanding quite rapidly, which is excellent news.

If people wanted to travel to one of the clinics, could they travel to take advantage of the services in Halifax? I'm from Yarmouth, for example, and Greenwood is in the riding I represent. We have a lot of military folks in West Nova.

[Trevor Bungay]

We have people coming from all over right now. People from P.E.I. come to Moncton. People in Sydney in Cape Breton come to Halifax. People in Yarmouth come to Halifax.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Does VAC take care of the travel expenses and overnight hotel stay if they need those?

[Trevor Bungay]

Yes.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

How long does the program typically take?

[Trevor Bungay]

They're there as long as it takes for them to recover, but we're not a 24-hour clinic. You come in one day, do your services, book your next appointment, and come in again.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Okay. Thanks very much.

Mr. Garsch, you mentioned the term “meaningful employment” and helping them find meaningful employment. Can you expand on that a little bit so I can understand the successes you've had?

[Andrew Garsch]

I can give you an anecdotal story.

We had one individual who participated in Shaping Purpose, and prior to that he had been on disability and in the VAC vocational rehabilitation program. He had taken some university courses at UPEI. He lived in Fredericton. He spent over a year away from his family at UPEI, all on the government's dime. After that year of either a two- or four-year program, he decided that he was no longer interested in doing it. There were no repercussions, and there shouldn't have been. It was just that it was recommended that he take that course, and he was told that there were employment opportunities with that, and he had no other idea of what he wanted to do. He just said okay because he was used to being told what to do, and he had no other idea what to do.

He actually participated in Shaping Purpose. He came away with his life plan. In doing so, he actually started to use some of the programs that are out there. One of them was Prince's Operation Entrepreneur. That's a program provided by the Canadian Forces. He's becoming an entrepreneur. He has his own business plan and everything all done up.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

That's a really important success story to hear. Thank you.

Mr. Doucette, you mentioned that within the transition from being a member of DND to being a veteran, sometimes things with Blue Cross don't work well, because sometimes drugs that are covered when you're in the Forces are no longer covered by Blue Cross when you're a veteran. Do you have any specific examples of types of drugs that aren't covered that we could look into?

[Fred Doucette]

I dealt mainly with soldiers who had an operational stress injury or mental health concerns. Most of the drugs would be in the range of antidepressants, anti-anxiety pills, and so on and so forth, and that was a big concern.

The other big concern was with starting your whole prescription life again once you get out, because the DND ones literally stop. If you need meds for another month, you're going to have to get at that pretty quickly. You have to get in to see a doctor, and the doctor is just going to take what he knows and work through it; he's not just going to blindly sign off on the prescriptions you say you were getting.

Some of the medications are life-saving too, so that's a big concern with regard to that transition.