Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 20th, 2016

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

I cannot speak for National Defence.

We are trying to raise awareness and have been focusing on that since we launched our prevention strategy in order to make sure that the members understand.

That said, the training program road to mental readiness, or R2MR, was established by National Defence. We implemented that program in the RCMP. So we are holding a lot of discussions with the National Defence people and are learning a lot about their programs.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay. You are saying that you already have that program. I probably missed that.

I have two questions, and the answer to the first question will guide me in the second one.

Unless I am mistaken, there are two pension plans for someone who is retiring, voluntarily or not, if they have not accumulated the 35 years of service required for a full pension. If they have not worked for 35 years and have a physical disability or a mental illness, they will receive a pension from the RCMP and, later on, a pension from Veterans Affairs Canada.

One of the problems that has been discussed many times has to do with the transmission of the medical report. Veterans are asked to consult a physician and to prove that they have a physical or mental health problem.

On page 8 of your document, it says that some people undergo a health assessment every year, and others are required to undergo it every three years.

Are those reports transmitted to Veterans Affairs Canada, or do RCMP members have to consult a physician to prove their situation?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

All those reports are part of the medical records. We all have a medical record, just like military members. I have a medical record.

I will ask Mr. Lebrun to explain to you how this information is passed on to Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Pierre Lebrun]

If an RCMP member submits a claim to Veterans Affairs Canada, they have to retrieve their medical information. If that information is scattered across three provinces, the member works with their RCMP medical services officer to compile all the information and pass it on to Veterans Affairs Canada, so that the appropriate service of the department can determine the amount of compensation the member is due.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Okay.

That seems much simpler for RCMP members than for military members. According to what we have been told, military members must see their physician, but they have difficulty obtaining their medical information. The ombudsman has actually recommended that the armed forces transmit the medical report.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

I will clarify something.

Sometimes, an RCMP member must get another report. If it's not in their medical records, they have to see a physician, like a military member does, to obtain that report and transmit it to Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

I would like to raise one last point.

From what I have read, you are satisfied with the services provided to you by the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada. You quote the ombudsman's report. It seems that you receive a large number of services and that the level of satisfaction is good.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

I find that the RCMP maintains a good relationship with Veterans Affairs Canada and with the military. The service is incredible. Those people help us a lot and are ready to listen to us.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

We would also like to see a high level of satisfaction among armed forces veterans.

Mr. Chair, that's all for me. I have asked the questions I wanted to ask.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Brassard, you have five minutes.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

First of all, I'm glad we're having this conversation because you gentlemen have been around the RCMP a long time. You know that 10 years ago, the issues of mental health and the stigmas related to PTSD were not even being discussed. We've seen an evolution over the course of the last 10 years and probably more so in the last five years where it's come to the fore. I think it's a national discussion that needs to take place.

I want to talk specifically about early intervention, and you talked about prevention and education. Regarding the incidents where traumatic situations happen and post-incidents, I'm wondering if you can walk me through the RCMP process of a post-traumatic incident review. Obviously the best time to be talking about this is in the beginning, just after an incident happens.

What type of process does the RCMP have to deal with post-incident analysis and to help its members talk about what they've just gone through?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

If I may, I will ask Mr. White to answer that question.

[A/Commr Stephen White]

That's a very good question and I thank you very much for that.

It's a combination of all the foundational training that we're doing. It goes back to your original point about the whole stigma in the organization. I agree, in the last five years we've made a lot of progress and yes, we are creating a lot more awareness across the country. A big piece of that is putting a focus on supervisor management training, to get our supervisors, managers, and senior managers to be very understanding, aware, and cognizant of issues related to mental health and able to identify them at an early stage.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Do you have a team that responds to post-traumatic incidents?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

Yes. We have a critical incident stress management guide for those teams, and Steve will outline quickly what that means.

[A/Commr Stephen White]

For the first part of time with them, we have the critical stress management aftercare guide. The purpose is to highlight the roles and responsibilities and provide a compilation of resources and guidance for individuals who are responsible for coordinating and managing all aspects of responding to a critical incident during and especially aftercare as well. It includes what to look for in the people who were involved in those incidents in order to make sure services that they require are provided immediately after the critical incidents. We recently introduced and implemented that guide, but it's very thorough and comprehensive, and a big part of it is the aftercare of a critical incident.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Is it on a peer support basis? Are these already existing officers or do you hire an outside agency to deal with this?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

We have our psychologists who are always at the critical incident debriefing. There's an automatic debriefing that's been mandated after any critical incident. At times we have gone to Health Canada using contracting through the employee assistance program to get more people on the ground. Fort Mac was one. We had psychologists who were tracking that to ensure.... We've become much better at this. Our commanding officers are very aware of this, and they watch when there is an incident. They deploy the peer to peers, the psychologists, and different people from the safety program to be on the ground to help not only during the incident but after, especially during the critical incident debriefings, to ensure our members have the correct help.

I'm more then willing to share the guide with you because it breaks down the roles, who does what. As Steve said, starting from the supervisor all the way down to the member, it says that they need to watch this, so they need to understand. It highlights where certain services are available.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Right. So those incidents may not necessarily directly involve officers but they may be incidents that happen within the community in which officers are a part of, correct?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

Yes.

It's not just about what everyone would think is the worst-case scenario, like a shooting. No. It's really for the managers to understand that different things could be critical incidents. They have to watch for these and they have to ensure they get the help for their members.

[A/Commr Stephen White]

Let me add that there is a nice piece of the guide as well that also looks at potentially providing aftercare support and services for family members who may have also been impacted by the husband, wife, or partner having participated in critical incidents.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Wonderful. Okay.

Now, the other thing—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You have 20 seconds.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

You know, I sit on the statutory regulations committee. We have no time frame. I can ask a question for an hour, if I want.

Anyway, thank you, gentlemen.

The only other comment I would make is that the public safety committee recently tabled a report. Are you aware of that report?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

Yes. I was reading it, actually, before coming here. We testified at that committee on behalf of the RCMP.