Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 27th, 2016

[Claude Lalancette]

I think Health Canada should open its doors and set aside funds for major research on this. However, I don't know if there are any funds for this.

As a veteran, I don't know what I could do. I could certainly open my Veterans Affairs Canada file and make it public. You could study it from start to finish and see that the pills had a dramatic effect on my life.

I don't think that doing this kind of research is my responsibility, but I could volunteer to open my files and show that the antidepressants and antipsychotics really wreaked havoc on my life. They made my symptoms worse. They caused the self-destruction in my life. It is unbelievable. It's all in my medical files. This whole development is documented at Veterans Affairs Canada.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

This is a new problem.

Outside of the group, is—

[Claude Lalancette]

Sir, the problem isn't new, but the treatment is so archaic that I almost died. These days, my brothers, my friends who are in the position I was in four years ago, when I was huge and dying, are themselves dying, sir.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

I think we misunderstood one another.

As I understand it, you found that it was the cause of your problem about two years ago.

[Claude Lalancette]

No, it's been five months.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

That's what I meant when I said that it was recent. It's a new situation.

[Claude Lalancette]

That's right.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

I don't deny that this affects you.

You identified the cause. You even belong to an international group. You spoke about it and made comparisons. Have you collected testimonies of civilians?

[Claude Lalancette]

Yes, sir.

There are two ladies are sitting at the back of the room right now who are ready to testify before the Standing Committee on Health. These young women have gone through hell.

The difference between their hell and ours is that they had the choice of taking the drug or stopping it. As for us, a member of the medical team—an ambulance attendant, I think—ordered us to take this drug. We spoke about symptoms, but that did nothing. However, these young women had the choice. That's the only difference.

These are horrible stories. In the past five months, when I began to raise awareness, I heard some horror stories.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much for making us aware of this problem. Everything has a beginning, and I think you will be seen as someone who initiated a new and important process.

[Claude Lalancette]

I hope so.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

I congratulate you on your courage and thank you for the energy you are devoting to this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Brassard.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

The first thing I would like to say, gentlemen, is thank you for your service to our country. Your testimony today has had a profound impact on me.

Robert, please.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Kitchen.

[Robert Gordon Kitchen, Conservative, Souris—Moose Mountain, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I echo that statement.

We talked a bit about acquired brain injury. On Tuesday, we were fortunate to have Dr. Nevin here.

He talked to us a bit about toxicity and the approach to it. Instead of looking at this, what appears to be happening is people have looked at it, and are saying it's a mental illness.

I don't necessarily buy that. I don't believe it is. The more I hear about it, the more I research it, the more I believe it is a toxicity issue.

Would you care to comment on that, Mr. Dowe?

[John Dowe]

I'm champing at the bit. Here is where we're dealing with a great amount of misunderstanding about what we're facing here today. Mefloquine intoxication is not a mental illness. Mefloquine intoxication is an acquired brain injury. It is also idiosyncratic in nature, meaning that it doesn't affect everyone the same way, at the same time, or in the same amount.

Mr. Brassard, I certainly feel for you as you feel for our testimony. I was listening a couple of days ago to testimony, and you had mentioned that you had a bit of background in lead and mercury poisoning, and whatnot. Was that you? Who was that? That was someone else? Okay.

This is where we get into that same sort of area. Like lead or mercury poisoning, mefloquine will build up in portions of the brain, and it will affect people intraneuronally to a severe range in some individuals, as it breaks the blood-brain barrier and disrupts the feedway patterns. It also creates lesions deep in the brain within the limbic region, as well. That's where you get this acquired brain injury, being any brain injury acquired postnatally. It's a chemical injury on the brain. It's not a mental illness.

The problem is, with mefloquine intoxication, when you start to throw SSRIs at that, you're going to exacerbate the symptoms, because you're dealing with the brain that is already not at 100%. That's where we're having the problems. Soldiers are being diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder because their symptoms mimic post-traumatic stress. When they reach into the DSM-IV or DSM-5, they look at the symptoms, and they're just treating the symptoms that present and what the patients themselves report, and that's going to mean SSRIs, talk therapy, and whatnot.

Meanwhile, we know that is going to compromise that soldier even further. He's not going to meet his PTSD markers for treatment. He's going to be looked at as either malingering, somatoform, or whatnot. People are not going to have faith in him that he's doing what he's trying to do to get better. He's going to become even more depressed because he can't seem to reach a level of functionality that he's being promised through the talk therapy and other therapies, so he falls further and further down into the crack. Then we end up with suicide, because as we know with associated and opportunistic disorders, if you don't treat the root cause, then it's those opportunistic disorders further along down the line that will be the end of you, if that answers that.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

One of the things we've heard about—and I know that Claude spoke about this, about community—is that when a soldier is within DND, and when they're within VAC, we're able to statistically keep track of them. Then once they leave, we're not able to statistically keep track of them.

Mr. Dowe, I know you've been dealing with this for a long time. Anecdotally or otherwise, how many people in your experience are suffering from this issue?

[John Dowe]

Well, anecdotally, we'll say 18,000 people. I'm just going with that number. We know it's about 20,000 or somewhere around there. It's somewhat of an arbitrary number, but let's say between 15,000 and 20,000. We estimate that up to 30% of that figure may present with permanent impairment symptoms from the drug, and they have been misdiagnosed and mistreated, so there you are. You're looking at 4,000 or 5,000 people right there. That's a huge figure.

Also, remember there are neurological symptoms, and there are psychiatric symptoms. As far as neurologically, also, there are people who are experiencing tinnitus, vertigo issues, and other encephalopathy symptoms that might be misattributed because we don't have a diagnosis for mefloquine toxicity.

It's a huge number, probably about 5,000.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you.

I think that's our time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Yes, thank you.

Mr. Fraser, I think you're going to split this?

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Sure. Mr. Chair, I'll give my question to Mr. Brassard. I think he had another one, and his time was cut short, so I'll give my question to him.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

No, that's fine, but thank you for that.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

All right.

Claude, you described very vividly the road rage psychosis that you had. That happened on a few occasions that you described. When was the last time that this happened? How did you get past that? I know that you were courageous enough to seek treatment after that and go back, but how long was that going on for?

[Claude Lalancette]

Actually, it was just before when I escaped and when my life fell apart. My divorce and everything else, the loss of my house to a house fire, the death of my mother...it all happened in one year. I had another psychosis, and I said, “No more.” I got rid of my car. I haven't been driving since I came back to Canada. I can't drive. Brandon Kett could testify to that. I'm extremely nervous and aggressive. My temper goes from zero to 1,000 in an instant. I have trouble controlling myself. Thank God I have natural medication, which helps me enormously. I don't know what else to say.