Veterans Affairs Committee on March 8th, 2017

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

In many ways we do very well, and yet, as our Prime Minister always says, “Better is always possible.”

It's a matter of a couple of things. One is ensuring that we're keeping and adding to our expertise and our staff component when necessary in order to provide that mental health hands-on outreach that we need. We think we have a better ability to do that through the hiring of an additional 381 people to date. We think that assists us.

Also, I have other mandate letter items I need to accomplish. One concerns the centre of excellence, which will be on mental health and post-traumatic stress disorder. We believe it will allow for us to capture best practices, to go out robustly into the academic world and otherwise to make sure we're at the top of our game and that we're continuing to do the best we can with the emerging information that comes out in this field.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, Minister.

Ms. Mathyssen is next.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being here, Minister.

I have a number of questions.

I note an increase in the estimates, but you know that there are a number of veterans who are not happy. They feel that they have not been provided with the benefits they have earned and are entitled to and that they're falling through the cracks.

What kind of funding do you anticipate you would need to rebuild that trust with veterans and to move through the backlog of veterans waiting for pensions?

The DND ombudsman crunched the numbers and came to this committee and provided us with those numbers. How prepared are you to allocate that sum of money outlined by the ombudsman to Veterans Affairs?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

We ran on a commandment to do things better for veterans and their families, full stop. I have a mandate letter from our Prime Minister that encompassed our commitments to veterans. We accomplished six of those 15 things, and two of them regarding financial security have really moved the meter a long way, and that's according to our Veterans Ombudsman. In the last budget we committed $5.6 billion to veterans and their families. That is now rolling out.

We've moved the disability award from $310,000 to a maximum of $360,000. We've moved the earnings loss benefit from 75% of a soldier's pre-release salary to 90%. These are tangible results that are putting more money in veterans' pockets. We are answering the bell on financial security and we remain committed to providing more financial security, including an option for a pension for life. That is still in our mandate letter. We are still committed to it, and of course we will be delivering on that promise.

We see that we have moved a great deal forward in terms of financial security, and we will continue to look at ways in which we can do that to have our veterans live firmly in the middle class.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Okay, so you've moved the disability award up, but it's not realized yet. That's still on the to-do list. It's just technically on paper. It hasn't actually happened yet. At least, that was my sense from what you said.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

The cheque will be in the mail, I believe, by April 1, unless the general wants to correct me on that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

You said you're going to deliver on those lifelong pensions within the term of this government. How will you make sure that veterans who receive lump sums under the new Veterans Charter and who want to transition to a lifelong pension are dealt with? How will you make sure that they receive what they should have been entitled to under the lifelong pension? As an act of good faith, would you be prepared to drop the case that you're fighting with Equitas?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

There are two separate questions here, and I'll try to separate them.

You'll note that we did make our disability award retroactive. We went back to 2006, and people who had received a disability award of only up to $310,000, if they were 100% disabled, will now get $360,000. We thought that was the right thing to do. We brought that forward because we were committed to showing a one veteran, one standard approach, and that's what we try to do in every aspect of what we bring.

We are dealing with a system right now that has been made up of a patchwork of programs slapped together from our government to other governments, and that actually makes it awfully difficult. In my department, I have injured soldiers who are 20 years old and injured soldiers who are 100. It makes it very complex. That said, we are committed to bringing in a pension option that works for veterans and families.

In terms of the court case, we are governing in terms of bringing in good public policy for veterans and their families. That's what I can do; that's in my control. Many of the things in our mandate letter are issues that were brought up by the Equitas lawsuit. In fact, many of the people who are on the Equitas lawsuit are part of my advisory team on financial security, mental health, and others. I'm very proud that they are working with us on solutions to problems facing the veterans community that were ignored for an awfully long time. They are actually very happy with many of the solutions we've brought to bear.

That said, they, like you, want us to get it done. I recognize that.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes, I met with some of those folks, and some of them aren't happy.

You talked about the maximum disability award. It's a lot of money, but how many veterans actually receive it?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

Do you want a breakdown of who receives what range in Veterans Affairs, from 5% to 100% disability? Is that what you'd like?

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes. Actually, you can send that later. It's just that $360,000 sounds like a lot of money, and there is this sense that a lot of people are getting it. I wonder exactly how many are getting it.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

I will get you the information, but I think it would help if I framed veterans compensation with a little more clarity for you.

One, there is an income stream. Any ill or injured soldiers who cannot work because of their service to this country will receive an income stream. That's called earnings loss benefit, or another program similar to it, whereby no injured soldier will receive less than $44,000 and change, I believe. That would be their annual income. Even if they were a senior private, which is the lowest rank on the file, they will receive that as a yearly benefit to them and their families.

Furthermore, the $360,000 is a pain and suffering payment. These two programs mirror each other. They help and augment each other to stabilize veterans and their families and allow them, if they are ill or injured and cannot work, to be fully compensated. If they can work, they are still going to get a payment through the disability award for pain and suffering, to recognize that they have suffered as a result of their military service.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, Minister.

Mr. Bratina, go ahead.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you.

We've been hearing a lot of testimony on a number of issues, but one thing that keeps cropping up seems to be the gap or the seam that occurs between the active service part at the Department of National Defence and the issues that we are dealing with at Veterans Affairs. What have you been working on in terms of closing the gap between the active service area and the veterans area?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

That's an excellent question. That's much of the work that has been taken over by our department and through our work with the Minister of National Defence and Chief of the Defence Staff Vance over the course of the last eight to nine months, understanding that we need to professionalize the release of members from our Canadian Armed Forces. It's what we essentially have to do.

We do a great job of getting people into the military and getting them through basic training, getting them on missions, and getting them places to live and everything while they're in service. We have to get that same type of attitude and structure in place so that when they are released, medically or otherwise, they're100% good to go on the day they leave. They have their pension cheque lined up and they understand what their supports look like so that if they're going to move to a community, they understand whether that community has services to help them or not. We need to do that, and that's why I'm very pleased that those conversations are happening and that the work is being done to recognize whether our soldiers are releasing with better outcomes.

Here's the real truth, guys, and I think.... “Guys”—ladies and gentlemen; it is 2017, by the way.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Yes.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

Just understand that it was a euphemism. It was a slip. Chair Ellis, I apologize. You were looking at me with great scorn and disdain there for a second.

Many people in the military do their military service and transfer successfully. Still, we have a far too large number, roughly 27%, who struggle in some form or fashion, whether that be employment, education, addiction, mental health, illness, or injury, and that is why we have Veterans Affairs. That's why we need to professionalize the release. We have a lot of work to be done. This is not going to be solved overnight. I wish it were, but it's not.

We're working to ensure that we professionalize the release, and I am very happy with the commitment of the Minister of National Defence, the Chief of the Defence Staff, and our department, who are working together to solve these issues. It's a financial issue, a rehab issue, a return-to-work issue, a return-to-school issue. There are a whole host of things that are going to allow us to have more success. Those conversations are getting detailed, and I can tell you they're moving along.

Is that fair?

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Yes. I've had the honour of presenting young veterans with civic pins and commemorative materials over the past few years. These are remarkable young men and women. I'm shocked when I see the number. The number I just looked up is 75,000 Second World War veterans, one of whom in my city is a 96-year-old Dieppe veteran who's hale and hearty and looking forward, actually, to the 75th anniversary commemoration this year.

I wonder if you could comment on these individuals who have been under the care and compassion of Veterans Affairs for 70 years. Do you hear much about the cohort of the oldest veterans? The Korean War I would put in there too; I believe those men and women are in their eighties now. What about them?

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

We're proud to commemorate the service and sacrifice of the men and women who have served in our military from the start of this great country to Vimy Ridge to Juno Beach to Korea to our peacekeeping missions, and then the Gulf War, Afghanistan, and all the peacekeeping missions in between our current efforts. It really is glorious, and veterans and Canadian Armed Forces members continue to keep this country safe, proud, and free.

We also know that we've been delivering our services to World War II and other veterans for a long time now. We have pretty good expertise in providing that service at various locations across this country. I know that around 6,400 people use long-term care paid for in some ways and fashions by Veterans Affairs. We work with over 1,500 locations across this country to get them the help they need to better live their lives. This is essentially through augmentation of national health care. We've gone to community care, and despite how you will sometimes hear something to the contrary, the vast majority of veterans want to live in the community where they're from, wherever it is, across this nation. That allows us to run a reasonable, pragmatic system with an eye to fiscal responsibility that allows us to deliver services in an efficient way.

One of the sad things is that many of these veterans will be moving on. Nevertheless, our government is committing to commemorating what they've done and continuing to keep their services and sacrifices alive. That's often why we do these various things, but I think it's also why we always have to look at November 11, our Remembrance Day ceremony in Ottawa and in this country. I know I was very happy with MP Fraser's private member's bill that now recognizes that we will be moving towards having a national holiday, at least federally. I think that sets the tone and sets the direction we're going as a nation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you, Minister.

Go ahead, Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Minister, for being here today. General, it's nice to see you again, and thank you so much.

I'd like to ask a question regarding long-term care.

Minister, I appreciate the work you've been doing, and a lot has been accomplished in the first year. With regard to long-term care, though, there's a recurring issue within my province of Nova Scotia, and I know in many care facilities across the country, with regard to how VAC is adapting to long-term care and how we are serving non-traditional veterans within these care facilities moving forward.

I wonder if you could comment on that and give us some light about how your department is thinking on this issue and what we can expect in the future.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

That's a good question. As I said in the previous answer, we're committed to providing veterans who have taken part in various endeavours to serve this country with long-term care in appropriate places.

We must also remember that we work very closely with provincial governments that are now primarily responsible for much of the long-term care apparatus in this country. Veterans Affairs partners with them on an ongoing basis to continue having a pragmatic government that recognizes different levels of governments' responsibilities and ensures that veterans still get the help they need, when and where they need it.

Over the course of the last three months, I know we have tried to get more flexibility into our arrangements. Particularly in your province, we've had some success on that, working with your premier and your health minister to try to make some more flexible, reasonable arrangements that sometimes the line items in government documents don't allow for when the hands of the minister are tied with respect to authorities.

We're proud of the work we did in that regard. We now have more agreements out there with various places.

General, maybe you could highlight some of the work we've done to add some flexibility into what we're doing, to get more veterans the help they need in their older years.

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen, again, as the minister indicated, the federal government doesn't run hospitals. With the handover transition of Ste. Anne's Hospital last year, all hospitals are now in the possession of the provinces, yet, as the minister mentioned in an earlier question, we support veterans in approximately 1,500 long-term care facilities coast to coast, because the research shows, and our veterans are saying, that veterans want to be close to family. Some of them want to be in one of those traditional 18 hospitals.

Province by province we are working, as we did in Nova Scotia and as we are in Ontario with Parkwood in London, Ontario, and Sunnybrook and others, to ensure for that generation of post-World War II and post-Korea veterans, we can work with the provinces to get community beds for veterans in each of those facilities. I'm really pleased that we have the kind of co-operation that we have from them.

Those same community beds would be available to allied veterans, veterans who fought for other nations, who clearly are eligible, and also for modern-day veterans, those from the peacekeeping era and through the Afghanistan era. If indeed they need access to long-term care, they will have those long-term beds. We have in excess of 600 modern-day veterans in community beds coast to coast.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Great. Thank you.

I'd like to turn now to something you touched on earlier, which is the improvement in the case management ratio from 40:1 to 25:1. I know a lot of good work has been done in that regard already in one year.

We've heard about something, and I'm wondering if you could comment on it. It is not just the improved ratio, which is very important to ensuring that the veterans are receiving adequate service and that they're being paid attention to; it's also whether there have been improvements in training for the case managers to ensure that they have a better understanding of the needs of the veteran and that they are more sensitive to some of the situations we've seen in the past that we are trying to avoid as we go forward.

[Kent Hehr, Liberal, Calgary Centre, AB]

I've had the honour and privilege of being in this job for a year and almost six months, and I can tell you I'm very proud of the Veterans Affairs staff throughout this country, from our head office in P.E.I., where Veterans Affairs is located, right through this country where people are working in our various offices, our various centres, and our OSI clinics and the like. They are highly professional public servants, highly committed to veterans' outcomes, who are doing their job every day, and I'm very proud of them. I'll put our case managers and their effectiveness and their commitment to the job up against virtually anyone you can name throughout government and throughout the private sector.

People in my department are very committed to the job, and I know if they need.... We have very many programs within Veterans Affairs that allow them to skill up, to get the help they need should they wish to have more opportunities to learn. I've just been super-thrilled with the commitment of our public servants.

As politicians, we get to do some neat things. We get to set the direction and do some public policy, but it's really the people on the front lines, the public servants, who better our veterans' lives. You see that throughout government and you definitely see it in mine.