Veterans Affairs Committee on Sept. 26th, 2017

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'd like to call the meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 106(2), we have election of the first vice-chair. With permission of the committee, we're going to delay that to after 10 o'clock, and start with the witnesses.

We have a two-hour panel. We'll go to a double round. We'll start with two 10-minute statements, followed by the Q and A.

I would like to welcome Frédéric Charlet, project director to the executive director of the Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre; and Alexandre Coyo, project manager of the General Secretariat for Administration.

Good morning, gentlemen.

We will start with Frédéric for 10 minutes.

[Frédéric Charlet, Project Director to the Executive Director, Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre, ministère des Armées]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, good morning.

My name is Frédéric Charlet, controller general of the armed forces. I am the assistant to the executive director of the Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre. She could not be here this afternoon because she is with young students at Notre-Dame de Lorette, one of our largest war cemeteries, located not far from here.

So the director is at Notre-Dame de Lorette today, a site you are familiar with, because it is close to Vimy. I also believe that some of you accompanied the Prime Minister for the commemoration activities last summer.

Before we get to the substance of the issue, I would like to say a few words about the Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre, or ONACVG.

It will help to know that this is a public institution that today is part of the Ministère des Armées. It now falls under the Ministère des Armées. It is actually the result of the merger of three offices. The first, the Office national des mutilés et réformés, was established in 1916, during the Great War. ONACVG is also a descendant of the Office national des pupilles de la nation. This was also established during the Great War, in 1917. To this very day, France has this very special ability to care for the children of those killed or wounded in military operations, by the country adopting them. We can come back to that later, if you wish. The third and final office that was absorbed into the Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre is the Office national du combattant, established in 1926, whose mission was transferred to ONACVG in 1945.

I feel that it is important to point out that ONACVG today cares for about 2.6 million people that we call “ressortissants”. Keep that figure in mind. Of course, among the 2.6 million, there are no longer any veterans from the First World War, “poilus”, as we call them in France. However, we still have tens of thousands of veterans from the Second World War and many veterans from the Indochina War. Today, those who swell the ranks of our veterans, if I may put it that way, are the professionals and the conscripts whom France sent to fight in Algeria between 1954 and 1962.

Finally, and not for long, we have been welcoming and caring for what we call in France the fourth combat generation, by which we mean all those who, since 1962, have served in external operations in Africa and the Near East, as well as those who are still in theatre on external operations today.

Since 1993, our office has issued more than 150,000 veteran's cards to those who have fought in external operations. Today, that is one of the major focuses of our office's work. I feel that is important to talk about the numbers of people, both veterans and war victims, that our office cares for, as well as describing their diversity.

The second factor to consider is the parity of representation in the management of our office. Certainly, it operates with public funds, but it has a board of directors on which veterans' associations are represented. They quite literally have the most votes. That is why the office is managed in a way we refer to as parity-based.

There is a third and final factor that I feel is important. I also feel that it is a problem Canada can perhaps relate to. Today, our office still has quite a dense network, since we provide services in every region of our country, and also in North Africa. We have about 105 neighbourhood service outlets that can receive veterans and their families at the same time, and respond in person to the concerns of veterans of all combat generations, in particular those who have served in external operations.

I have more or less gone over the points I wanted to bring up by way of introduction. I will step aside for Commissioner Alexandre Coyo, who will be able to flesh out my remarks and deal with other subjects.

[Alexandre Coyo, Project Manager, General Secretariat for Administration, Ministère des Armées]

Mr. Chair, ladies and gentlemen of the committee, I am Chief Commissioner Alexandre Coyo. I work with the General Secretariat for Administration on matters involving the combat community. The combat community naturally include veterans, but also wounded soldiers, families who have lost loved ones, and the victims of acts of terrorism.

I am going to talk to you very quickly about the pillars of the ministry's policy on the care of members of the military who become sick or injured while serving. The policy is clearly horizontal in that it involves serving members and those who have left the service and will enter the ambit of the Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre for long-term care.

The first of the three pillars of the ministry's policy of care is the right to reparation. In France, we have a right to specific, financial reparation. If you wish, I can tell you a little more about the financial care we provide.

The second pillar we offer to wounded soldiers and their families is personal support. This is an extremely human dimension of the policy, in which the only mission of those who operate it is to provide personal support to wounded soldiers. Each of the armed forces has a wounded warriors' group to provide that support. Once the member has left active service, ONACVG takes over.

There are also groups like the Service de santé des armées, that provide a range of services to each member.

The third pillar, which is seen as essential, is what we describe as protection. This includes recognition mechanisms, including awarding medals in order to put a value on combat actions, or the statutory protections established in the Code de la défense. They provide specific protections for the rights of military members and their families.

If I may, I would like to give you some key figures.

In France today, we provide pensions for 150,000 veterans. That is the overall total at the end of 2016. An additional 55,000 spouses or children of wounded soldiers also receive support after the soldier dies. The policy means that we spend 1.2 billion euros annually in specific support for wounded soldiers.

I would be delighted to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

We'll start with our first round.

Ms. Wagantall, you have six minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much for being here with us this morning. We really appreciate the opportunity to hear how our allies are handling their veterans.

I have a question with regard to the movement from active duty to becoming a veteran, that whole transition process. We're working to make it better. I'm wondering what kind of a time lag exists, or whether there is any experience of a chasm for your veterans between having served and then moving into that new life of transition into civilian life.

Either one of you can answer that however you like.

[Frédéric Charlet]

If I understand correctly, you are wondering how one becomes a veteran in France.

Is that what you meant by your question?

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's correct.

[Frédéric Charlet]

If you have been deployed on external operations for more than 120 days, you can ask the Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre for what we call a veteran's card. Having the card gives you the right to wear the Croix du Combattant. As soon as you have that card, you are considered a combatant, or a veteran, and you become the responsibility of the Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre. You are then eligible for social benefits that go hand in hand with professional rehabilitation. The statute does not assume that you are wounded. If you were wounded in an operation, you can also ask for a military disability pension. Those pensions are administered by Commissioner Coyo`s services.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

If I understand correctly, you could be receiving those benefits while still serving.

[Frédéric Charlet]

Yes, you can.

[Alexandre Coyo]

Absolutely.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's a very different approach from what we have, I believe.

Could you describe a little more what that veteran's card looks like and exactly what benefits it gives them?

[Frédéric Charlet]

I can show you mine.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Is it connected with services? If they need health benefits, like prescriptions and that type of thing, would they use that card? Or is this an identity card?

[Frédéric Charlet]

At the moment, the card does not come with a chip. The Office becomes responsible for the bearer, who, as a result, can get administrative, social and financial support. Having this card also allows the bearer to wear what we call the Croix du Combattant. That is an additional medal that these young veterans can wear.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Remind me how many days they need to have served to qualify for the card.

[Frédéric Charlet]

You have to have spent 120 days on external operations, but I must make it clear that the concept of external operation has a legal basis. The Ministère des Armées determines whether the operation a person has taken part in is actually an external operation. In France, we have sovereignty forces stationed outside the country. Those stationed outside the country as part of those forces are not considered to be in an external operation.

So the concept of external operation has a legal basis. The decision to declare an external operation falls to the ministry. If that declaration is made, the 120-day clock starts ticking and participation is cumulative. I am sure you know that France's armed forces intervene in a number of operations. As I said earlier, operations occur in Africa, in the Middle East, and in other places around the world. A person may very well be deployed for 50 days in Africa, the Central African Republic or Mali or Chad, and 70 days in Lebanon, Iraq or elsewhere. As soon as the person has accumulated 120 days, they can ask for their veteran's card.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

As far as reservists are concerned, do you have the same kind of scenario as we have where you have reservists available to come up and serve, and do they get the same kind of...?

[Frédéric Charlet]

Yes, they do. Reservists can take part in an operation. They can also ask for the card as soon as they have chalked up 120 days in external operations.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Fraser.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to our witnesses for their presentations and for joining us today. It will help us to try to improve the situation for our veterans as much as we can, by comparing their situation with veterans in France. I also want to thank France for the welcome we were given as Canadians when we went there on the occasion of the 100th anniversary of the battle of Vimy Ridge. You mentioned that our Prime Minister was there in Notre-Dame de Lorette. I myself was fortunate enough to be part of the Canadian delegation that travelled to France in April. The welcome we received, particularly from young people, was very moving. We thank you for that.

When I was young, I was a tour guide at Vimy. It was good to go back. It is important to pay tribute to our veterans. In Canada, we are seeing a growing interest in activities to commemorate our military history and to honour our veterans.

Is the same thing happening in France?

[Frédéric Charlet]

Yes, there is certainly a definite appetite for history in general and for last century's conflicts. It is true that the ceremonies and rallies that marked the commemoration of the centenary of the Great War have led to more discussion of veterans. Each combat generation also has its own history. A lot of work has been done on the First World War. There is also a lot of work on the period between 1939 and 1945. For France, it is a lot more complicated to work on periods like the war in Algeria. You know that it was a painful period for us, and it is true that talking about a time in history where France sent more than 1 million of its children into combat remains a little painful even today, but work is beginning. Some historians are working on it. The war in Algeria is being commemorated. For example, this painful chapter can be remembered on three dates during the year.

Yesterday, for example, September 25, was the Journée nationale d'hommage aux harkis. You may know that the harkis were French Muslims who, during the war in Algeria, fought on the side of the French. The same French who, in 1962, did not embrace them as they should have.

We are continuing to work on the period of the war in Algeria. We have also begun to work on reviving the memory of the external operations. I know that it is somewhat the same in Canada. Some operations are talked about more easily, or less easily, than others, like the one in Rwanda, for example, which should bring back memories here. This page in our history of external operations is still very difficult to recall dispassionately even today.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Is there a particular involvement with young people to teach them about history as well as about respecting veterans? Is your office involved in that regard?

[Frédéric Charlet]

Certainly.

Today, in fact, you get me and not my executive director. That is because she is accompanying high school classes to the war cemetery at Notre-Dame de Lorette, to explain its significance to the students. In France, our office maintains 274 of them today. It is something we address with young people a great deal.