Evidence of meeting #87 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was communities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
BGen J.J.M.J. Paul
We might have to do a bit of digging to see whether any surveys had been done of people who had opted not to continue. Bits of information of that nature may be available.
I'm not sure if we have done that in a systematic way to try to figure out ways people have been retiring or leaving some of the programs. Do we have any specifics or any statistics on that?
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Yes, or for not continuing after accessing some of these programs.
MWO Grant Greyeyes
It has to do with community involvement and how the young members are recruited. It is not always through the Canadian Forces recruiting system. As a matter of fact, a small percentage go through the recruiting system. A lot of it is done by former members who have participated in Bold Eagle, Black Bear, and Raven. It has become a household name in western Canada. To have Bold Eagle on your resumé is a point of success in your life. You don't necessarily have to join the military to have that.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
I appreciate that, but I would like to see more specific data. I come from that environment of minorities. I was superintendent of all the French schools in Nova Scotia, and when any child left our system, the parents and the child had an opportunity to tell us in a survey why they decided to leave and what more we could have done to enrich that opportunity.
Right now we are focused on indigenous veterans. A veteran is a veteran, and our expectations are the same, and I agree 100% with all that. I'm just looking at how we could maybe enhance that opportunity.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Thank you. We're out of time. If you do have any data on that, would you get back to our clerk and she'll distribute it.
Ms. Wagantall.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate what I'm hearing.
I have one quick question in regard to the Canadian Forces aboriginal entry program. It doesn't sound as if there's a lot of uptake on that, with 30 available and eight actually participating at this point in time. Do you resource through the cadet program as well? In rural Saskatchewan we have a lot of aboriginal young people involved in cadet programs. Do you draw from there as well, or is that a totally different dynamic?
MWO Grant Greyeyes
We have an age restriction of where we can recruit. We cannot recruit youth and we cannot engage in recruiting activities with youth. We can only target people who are available to join the Canadian Armed Forces.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
However, they graduate out of cadets, so they have that background, right?
MWO Grant Greyeyes
There is awareness created in discussion. The cadets and the military are linked. I think everybody can understand that link, but we cannot go actively in there and say—
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Yes, I understand. Thank you.
In previous testimony, an individual asked if there is a challenge for our first nations veterans as they transition back into northern Saskatchewan. We're discussing the role of transition and the building of a seamless transition from the Canadian Armed Forces to VAC.
The grand chief of the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association, Steven Ross, gave his comments, and I would like you to comment if you have anything more to add. He said:
I believe the challenge is still there.
It also depends on how old the veteran is when they leave the armed forces. The older you are, the more experienced you are, and the more mature you are. You can assist your people, your first nation, in that manner, because they look at you differently now.
In that way, I think, you have earned the ability to invest more in your community. He continued:
With your experience—your global experience, I guess—you're a different person than you were when you left.
They want that kind of person to be counselling [our youth and] our young people. That's what I see.... [However]...the young...people are in a much different situation here, when some of them—and I think many more—are coming out with...PTSD [issues] as well.
That's something he didn't understand, but he said that he knows they're having problems adjusting, problems finding employment, and problems taking classes, and he said that those are the people who really need help right now.
He said:
When I left in 1968, I went directly from the armed forces to construction in Calgary and worked there for a while. After a couple of years, I went back to the reserve. I worked...for a while...as a labourer, until I finally saw the light and went back to school and to university. After university, it was a whole new world...for me.
I'm wondering about this. With what you're investing in these young people, is there that focus, too, that this may not be your entire life, and that if you're leaving early you don't get that long-term career? What kind of an investment is being made for them? Really, at some point, they're going to transition. He clearly saw that university broadened and opened up a new world for him. What role do you see in the longer picture?
BGen J.J.M.J. Paul
When we are still in uniform, there are plenty of opportunities to get a degree.
Again, this is anecdotal, but when I first arrived at Third Van Doos as a subbie, I was the only guy in a 700-man battalion who had a master's degree. I was the only one. Nowadays, if you go back to any infantry battalion, you will realize that there are probably close to a hundred people who have a bachelor's degree, so it's not only about the aboriginals; it's about the army population in general. We are a way more educated force than we used to be. Obviously, I cannot comment on the specifics of Veterans Affairs programs, because I haven't made that transition here yet, but what I'm hearing is that the programs and those they are working on right now are very generous.
I know that a few of my former soldiers have been through the whole process. Nothing is perfect—right?—but so far, the comments I've heard from my men and women from Kandahar are very, very positive. The opportunities are there when you are in uniform, and when you are moving into Veterans Affairs programs, the programs are there. On top of it, if you are a status Indian you can get the funding from Indian Affairs to do your schooling as well.
I would offer to you that aboriginal veterans with status have two avenues of approach. They can tap into Veterans Affairs programs for schooling, as well as Indian Affairs. That's how I ended up doing a bachelor's degree and a master's degree. My father was a snowshoe-maker and a canoe-maker. I was the first one in my family to get an education. I had the privilege of becoming an officer, and it's because of the support I got from Indian Affairs. Otherwise, I would probably still be on the reserve, which is not bad in itself, but I....
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
No, I understand.
Would you have any comments to make? You're the young guy in the crowd here today.
Conservative
WO Moogly Tetrault-Hamel
There is a lot to say about it, but it's hard within a short time frame.
As part of my mandate, we are assisting the spiritual support of our members within the Canadian Armed Forces. We're looking at what is available for non-Indigenous members and different religions and then translating that into what could be available for Indigenous people in the military. As we're allowed to continue to wear our sense of cultural identity throughout our career, it facilitates our reintroduction to the community at the end of our military cycle.
Also, as a father of four children—I'm Abenaki, and my wife is Nuu-chah-nulth from British Columbia—I think it's really important that we don't take the culture aspect away from them, because when I retire, it's also going to be a big change for them, my wife and our children, to be able to go there. We want to make sure to use every tool possible to facilitate that for them.
Just to add quickly, to me a uniform is sacred. It may sound strange, but as we move from one area to another across Canada with all the postings, it's not always that welcoming for indigenous people in some of those areas, but when you wear a uniform in those areas, you get respect from average Canadians. It gives you the feeling that you do have a voice, and that's something that.... Again, I have not retired, and I still have long way in front of me, but when I do retire, I strongly believe I will carry on what I have learned from the military in terms of being able to speak up and having a voice that deserves to be heard.
Liberal
Conservative
Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just want to clarify that when I spoke earlier about being an officer cadet with the CIC, it was affiliated with the PPCLI but was not part of the PPCLI.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
On behalf of the committee I want to thank you all for taking time out of your busy day to testify and for all that you do for the men and women who serve. If you have anything to add to your testimony, if you get it in written form to our clerk, she'll get it distributed among the committee.
There is a motion to adjourn by Mr. Erskine-Smith.
The meeting is adjourned.