Veterans Affairs Committee on May 22nd, 2018

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

You've mentioned mental health challenges. Of course, we hear way too often about youth suicide and the lack of mental health supports on many reserves across Canada. Now we're hearing the same thing from your perspective in terms of indigenous soldiers and mental health. It just seems to me that there's such a need. I'm very familiar with the youth aspect of mental health issues, but I really hadn't thought much about this issue you're bringing forward today in terms of indigenous soldiers.

I wonder if you could talk a bit about the general lack of mental health support on reserves and its impact on the populations that live there.

[Robert Thibeau]

I have an individual who has a master's in social work, and she's living in Kenora. I employ them during the summer to do my culture camps—a four-day culture camp—and in her case as a counsellor for the young students.

When you do a culture camp with a young group and listen to some of the things they've gone through in present day—not the generations before them, but in present day—about sexual abuse on a reserve, abuse on the reserve, lack of certain things on the reserve, it's very troubling.

As for the suicide rates, I believe that had the culture not been put in a delayed mode and pushed underground the way it was for so many years.... It's making a resurgence now, but it's going to take a long, long time. Elders, when they teach the young people about suicide, say you're doing something that the Creator doesn't support you on. The Creator lets you know when he wants you. If you take your own life, you are caught between the next world and the world you're in now, so you roam.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Samson, you have six minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Thibeau, for your testimony, but also for your service. It's much appreciated.

Thank you as well, Mr. Bertrand, for being here as support and one who knows how business works here on the Hill.

I have a couple of comments to make before I go to questions.

The first one is that you made reference to the fact that indigenous people played a major role in Confederation. It's funny that you said that, because my knowledge of that was limited. However, I did spend a day in the War Museum last month. I'm sure you're aware of this, but if not, I want to share this with you. It was evident through the information provided—I was able to gather that information—but I had not been aware of the role they played and the number of indigenous people who enrolled and contributed in World War I, World War II, and the Korean War. It's quite impressive. I wanted to underline that piece first of all.

The second piece I'd like to touch on is that I'm an Acadian from Nova Scotia—L'Acadie as it was known back in the 1700s, and the indigenous peoples in my area, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and P.E.I., played a major role in helping Acadians survive: before deportation, during, and post. People don't talk about that, but I know that my Acadian colleagues and community often speak of that.

I want to thank you and your peoples again for helping us through a very difficult time—shelter, food, life, and risking your lives to help others: neighbours, colleagues and friends. That's very powerful. I want that on the record as well. I think it's very, very important.

The third one is a quick question. I have three or four questions, but this is a quick one. You mentioned how proud you were in knowing you had access to education programs up to four years, $80,000, and the caregivers allowance. Because it helps me understand, when did you find out that these programs existed, and how many people in your communities are aware of that?

[Robert Thibeau]

The people within my organization are aware of it but only just recently. I knew the issues were coming.

For example, on the mental health group, I knew a suicide strategy was coming. Do I agree with everything in the suicide strategy? No, I don't. I don't believe that DND or VAC should be working in isolation from Health Canada and away from professionals within the mental health world, but there's a strategy there. It's good to know that. However, as I mentioned in my talk, it's also about working with indigenous social workers and mental health professionals to make sure we're getting it. It's very sad when you hear of veterans committing suicide. It's very sad when you hear of anybody committing suicide, but it's astonishing when you hear the numbers of indigenous youth who are committing suicide.

When we first started talking about this, I was getting a little frustrated because suicide prevention never seemed to hit the table anywhere until veterans started committing suicide. I'm thinking to myself, it's been a known fact here for years that the indigenous population has the highest rate of suicide, and in the Inuit community it may be the highest in the world. Here we are. That's why I'm hopeful it's going to take.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

When an activist, as you are, sharing knowledge and skills and whatnot is only aware now, we need to do a better job in this. Your being an indigenous veteran, your wife being a veteran but not indigenous, can you draw some parallels with those who returned from World War I or World War II? You didn't touch on that. Of course, you weren't there. Perhaps you could draw a very quick picture for the committee of a veteran, your wife being non-indigenous and you being indigenous regarding benefits that would have come or not come to each of you.

[Robert Thibeau]

The fortunate aspect of it is that when Rose came back....

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

That's your wife.

[Robert Thibeau]

Yes.

When she came back from Bosnia, she had to transport a casualty by helicopter from the field to the hospital in Sarajevo so he could get an MRI or something. When she went to Sarajevo, her back was bad. The doctor told her to get an MRI. Her back was worse than the casualty's. This is after she carried the stretcher in and out of the hospital.

When she had to apply for the pension, there was no issue. I have two vertebrae broken in my back from parachuting—my knee, shoulder. Those things were looked after completely. But I was never in a remote community or a rural area where I didn't have first-hand access to those benefits or the people.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Thibeau.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Ms. Lambropoulos.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Mr. Thibeau and Monsieur Bertrand, thank you for being with us today.

We know that in rural communities, it's more difficult to get services, obviously. Would you say there are other issues that are not about where you're located that make it more difficult for indigenous members of the CAF or of VAC to receive services later on or is it fairly equal other than the fact that they may live further away?

[Robert Thibeau]

Again, there's the communication aspect of it. The people who are further away may not get the communication of the benefits that are there but across the board, everywhere indigenous or not, if you're close to a major centre, you're going to be able to get it.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

You mentioned a few times that communication is key, and that would make everything a lot more successful. Can you give us some recommendations? You mentioned maybe helping people financially to get to locations. Is there anything else you would recommend to the government to ease communication or outreach to rural communities?

[Robert Thibeau]

If you could get them all a computer.... No, I'm kidding.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

And the Internet to go with it.

[Robert Thibeau]

The critical part is the Inuit communities that are away from the normal major centres. I don't even know if VAC has an office up in Inuvik or Yellowknife. I'm not sure. If it doesn't, then that's probably a good start to looking after veterans.

Again, for up north, anybody who's in the northern reaches of the provinces doesn't have that ability to get in. If you live in some fly-in communities, how do you get to a Veterans Affairs office to talk about benefits?

The computer, yes, if you have the computer system, if you have the ability to do that, but again it's hit and miss.

It's a major problem, and my answer to it is to have somebody visit the community, face to face. The best thing about a face-to-face visit is that you're there on a mission and you have a job to do when you go in, but you're also learning something about another culture and another community. You get to see first-hand some of the things you can bring back and maybe try to influence.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Since you are an advocate for indigenous veterans and members who are serving, what are the most common issues that people come to you for? What do people have the most difficulty with when receiving services, other than the fact that they're away?

[Robert Thibeau]

That is the major critical one, the distance. We still have a couple of Korean vets and an Italian campaign vet. They're well into their nineties. It's very hard for them to travel.

That's the critical side of things. It's not being able to access.... Even if they had a computer, they probably wouldn't understand the mechanism of the computer. If there were somebody in the community who could help.... With some of the mental health things that are going on, when the strategy comes out, maybe there's a connection that can be made within the community itself, along with those professionals who are in there.

That's the major point, the distance between them and where that office is. Once they get to the office, then they're like anybody else. They walk in the door and they sit with somebody and go through the process. It's getting to the door.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

That's definitely going to be one of our recommendations at the end of this report. I just wanted to know if there was something else you would like to add.

[Robert Thibeau]

I think you're going to be speaking to some veterans out there. For example, Joe Grey-Thorne will be in Victoria, and Alex Maurice, and that will probably be one of the most interesting talks that you'll have.

Also, there's Debbie Eisan in Halifax. When you speak to Debbie, you will find she knows everything that's going on within Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and P.E.I. She's the only Ojibwa lady, elder, who's been adopted by the Mi'kmaq in Nova Scotia. That's pretty high praise for her. She works very well for veterans.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Chair, first all, it's good to have you here again.

I'm catching up. I was not here for our last meeting, and we had representatives from Saskatchewan here talking about issues, and that's my home province. Isolation and rural issues are huge across the board for us there. You can appreciate that, right?

As far as veterans go, I'm just beginning to find many veterans in our province who you don't know are there. Part of the issue is communication. You talked about effective communication, and that's what we need.

Do you know Grand Chief Steven Ross from the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association?

[Robert Thibeau]

No, but I know he's part of First Nations Veterans of Canada, and I know that Chief Percy Joe is part of that organization as well.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay.

I look at these and there seems to be a disconnect on a number of fronts. When I think of our rural population and the role that you and your organization play, I see it almost—and I may be wrong here—as though the Legion is, in many ways, for others what you are for first nations. Would that be comparable?