Veterans Affairs Committee on May 22nd, 2018

[BGen J.J.M.J. Paul]

I'm going to offer you a general comment, and then maybe Master Warrant Officer Greyeyes can jump in.

Right now, we do have a lot of cultural awareness programs within the CAF. I don't think it's being offered to everybody; it's one aspect of it.

The other aspect that is extremely important is education on the other side; i.e., on many occasions I ended up sitting down with parents who were having doubts about letting their young men or young women join the service. Those of us in uniform who are aboriginal, when it comes down to recruiting, we can also educate many parents about what is waiting for their children who are about to sign up.

Yes, we do have some programs in place, and once again, Officer Greyeyes can expand on it.

The last point I would like to offer is that these programs were in existence when I signed up 30 years ago. I've seen huge progress. When I signed up, I wasn't really vocal about who I was. People knew I was a status Indian because I still lived on the reserve. The reserve is right next to Valcartier. But it's not something that I was speaking out loud about; let's be honest. Nowadays, it's much better perceived.

Every time we're running a Bold Eagle or a Black Bear program, there's a bunch of instructors. These instructors very often are non-aboriginal, so they themselves are being introduced to the aboriginal culture, and there's a domino effect. These instructors are very often sergeants, warrant officers, and captains, people who still have 15 to 20 years to go in their career. I like to see that as extremely positive. I've seen a bunch of Van Doos instructing in these programs who came out of it saying or thinking, that's not what they were thinking of. It was a discovery for them.

[MWO Grant Greyeyes]

Thank you, sir.

There is a formal program conducted for indigenous awareness training within the Canadian Armed Forces. The functional authority for that is the military personnel generation, which used to be known as the Canadian Defence Academy. They are the ones that direct anyone within the Canadian Armed Forces to take the formalized indigenous awareness training.

The reason they do this training is to create awareness for leadership to learn about the indigenous cultures within Canada. The other reason is for all instructors or personnel who work with the programs that were described by General Paul—Bold Eagle, Raven, Black Bear, ALOY, CFAEP—to have to participate in aboriginal awareness training so they are more culturally aware of the candidates on the program. It is very important that they do that so they know who they're talking to, and in some cases how to talk to the personnel they're teaching or working with. That's the formal part of indigenous awareness training within the Canadian Armed Forces and the functional authority.

The other part, with the defence aboriginal advisory group and the informal aspect, is creating that awareness amongst our members. Current serving members within the Canadian Armed Forces, and within DND—the civilian aspect of the defence team—come in, and they have no outreach to the communities. However, they create within the Canadian Armed Forces bases a conduit to the culture for them. The defence aboriginal advisory group will provide links to the community, or right inside the DAG itself will help with teachings and create the cultural awareness that's required for members, and for families if required.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Fraser, for five minutes.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Chair, I'll be sharing part of my time with Mr. Erskine-Smith.

My sincere thanks to all of you for being here and providing your input. Thank you as well for your service to the country. It is certainly very much appreciated.

You said that your goal was to achieve an indigenous representation target of 3.5%.

What is the current percentage of indigenous CAF members?

[BGen J.J.M.J. Paul]

As of March, it was 2.7%, if I'm not mistaken. It varies based on release and enrolment numbers.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Has the percentage gone up as a result of the programs you mentioned?

[BGen J.J.M.J. Paul]

I don't have the figures on hand.

I'm not sure whether a member of the team knows the answer.

Yes. We can do that. We can provide you with the exact figures.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

If you find the answer, could you kindly send the information to the committee?

Thank you.

I'm wondering about this as well. In the previous panel, we had somebody representing indigenous veterans. This being the veterans affairs committee, I'm wondering if you can shed some light on any engagement that the Canadian Forces has with indigenous veterans as part of recruitment, or any co-operation you have with that community that could be of assistance to what you're trying to achieve with your goal.

[MWO Grant Greyeyes]

As indigenous advisers within the Canadian Armed Forces, we reach out to everybody we can to assist with recruiting. We have indigenous advisers within the Canadian Forces recruiting group itself: me, Warrant Officer Tetrault-Hamel, and there are others within the military personnel generation. We reach out not just to recruitment, but we also ask veterans organizations to assist us. We ask tribal councils to assist us.

On your question specifically and whether we reach out to the veterans organizations, the answer is yes. Bold Eagle has a management committee, and veterans are specifically a part of that.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

As far as recruitment goes, I know the cadets program plays an important role in Canada as far as introducing perhaps young people to the Canadian Forces or the reserves.

Is there any kind of programming for the cadets that deals specifically with indigenous youth?

[Col T.E.C. Mackay]

Sir, within the Canadian rangers program, we have the junior Canadian ranger program, which is a youth program. It's not exclusive to indigenous cultures, but certainly a good percentage of the participants are indigenous. It's very similar to cadets. It is a youth program, and there is a cultural component to it.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Thank you very much.

I'll give the rest of my time to Mr. Erskine-Smith.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you very much for being here.

I just have two questions.

My first question is in relation to the transitional period as people are leaving the forces to be veterans. Presumably there's a hand-off and Veterans Affairs is then responsible for providing support programs. For service people to know the programs that are available to them and to be able to have a successful transition, though, what's your role and specifically what work is done to that end?

[BGen J.J.M.J. Paul]

The programs that are in place, obviously, are serving every Canadian Forces member who is retiring, whichever background they may be coming from.

The aspect, though, that really has attracted my attention lately is that some of these services are not really available when you're from a remote community. When I was commanding in western Canada in Wainwright, some of my veterans were not aboriginal but their case managers were in Calgary, Edmonton, and so on and so forth. If, however, you're coming from northern Quebec or northern Alberta, whether you are a native or non-native individual, the distance might be an issue.

It is extremely important for us, when we are in uniform, to insist that our members will be reaching out and making contact. Personally, when I was a commanding officer, I was always ensuring that the connection had been made. However, when they transit into the system of Veterans Affairs, they are moving away from the CAF, obviously.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

You have a number of programs in place. To what extent are you seeking feedback from indigenous members to understand what's working and what isn't working and if there are suggestions you can then build into what you are doing?

[BGen J.J.M.J. Paul]

The program is being delivered by aboriginal and non-aboriginal people. Obviously, since we have elders on these programs, they can tweak the program. They have a lot of experience, obviously.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Is there a formal survey process?

[BGen J.J.M.J. Paul]

That I wouldn't know.

Maybe, MWO, you know.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Be very quick.

[MWO Grant Greyeyes]

For the entry programs that were introduced, yes, the training establishment has conducted an exit survey.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Stetski, you have five minutes.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you for being here today and for your service, as well.

You mentioned currently there is 2.7% of the 3.5% target. What percentage of that is indigenous women, and are there any special efforts being made to recruit more indigenous women?

[BGen J.J.M.J. Paul]

Again, I don't have that specific number. We'll get back to you with the number.

What you need to understand is that this is all about self-declaration and self-identification. You may be an aboriginal or a first nations member, but if you don't self-identify, it's very difficult for us to track who is who. That's why I would offer that you have to take that number with a grain of salt.

Based on my personal experience, I really believe there are a lot of people, either Métis or non-status or status Indian, who are simply not self-declaring. In terms of numbers, my instinct would be to believe that they are probably higher than what is being officially reported. Again, I don't have the hard data for you, ladies and gentlemen.

[Wayne Stetski, NDP, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Are there are no programs specifically to encourage indigenous women to become part of the forces?