Evidence of meeting #97 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Gary Walbourne  Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
Robyn Hynes  Director General, Operations, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
Amanda Hansen-Reeder  Acting Director, Systemic Investigations, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
Richard Martel  Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
Shaun Chen  Scarborough North, Lib.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

I'd like to call the meeting to order. I do apologize. We had a vote, so we're starting a bit late.

Today is the last public hearing in relation to the study of needs and issues specific to indigenous veterans.

In December 2017, the Office of the National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman published a report entitled ”Canadian Rangers: A Systemic Investigation of the Factors That Impact Healthcare Entitlements and Related Benefits of the Rangers”. As a committee, we'll go to Yellowknife and visit the rangers community next week. The timing is perfect.

We're pleased to welcome Gary Walbourne, Ombudsman.

Gary, we'll open it up to you for 10 minutes. I see you have Robyn Hynes and Amanda Hansen-Reeder with you. Thank you for coming.

3:40 p.m.

Gary Walbourne Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

I want to once again thank you for inviting representatives from this office to appear before your committee to discuss issues that are pertinent to current and former members of the Canadian Armed Forces and their families.

Joining me today are Robyn Hynes, Director General of Operations, and Amanda Hansen-Reeder, Acting Director, Systemic Investigations. Both Ms. Hynes and Ms. Hansen-Reeder were actively involved in the development of the report, and if I can't answer your questions, they can.

Your study on the needs and issues specific to indigenous veterans will serve to inform both public discourse and government decision-making moving forward. I believe that the recommendations contained in my recent report on the Canadian rangers regarding the factors that impact health care entitlements and related benefits will serve as a valuable guidepost for this important discussion surrounding the health and wellness of our eyes and ears of the north. I am also pleased to say that our office has published this report in five indigenous languages. It's the first time for our office.

Our office launched this systemic investigation in 2016 after preliminary research of the Canadian rangers organization found several areas of concern in the determination of an appropriate type of reserve service, concerns with the absence of the requirement for medical examinations for rangers prior to enrolment, and a lack of awareness on the part of the Canadian rangers with regard to their entitlement to the Canadian Armed Forces health care treatment and employment benefits.

Our dedicated team of systemic investigators travelled extensively to conduct in-person interviews with rangers, rangers instructors, chaplains, commanding officers, members of the Canadian Ranger National Authority, the Canadian Forces health services, Canadian Joint Operations Command, various branches of chief miliary personnel, Health Canada, Veterans Affairs Canada, and others. Over 150 interviews were conducted, often in remote locations, to ensure that the voices of these constituents were heard and understood.

Before proceeding to the findings and recommendations of my report, I want to take a couple of minutes to speak to the uniqueness of the Canadian rangers as members of the Canadian Armed Forces. This uniqueness is rooted in cultural, geographical and socio-economic circumstances.

First, there is no doubt that the Canadian rangers organization and the junior Canadian rangers program have a positive impact on northern and remote communities. The transfer of traditional knowledge from elders to youth is embedded, valued and relied upon for mission success. The structure from enrolment to promotions and beyond is decided upon by that community. The model binds the Canadian rangers organization and the junior Canadian rangers program in core principles of honesty, integrity, learning and purpose.

As testimony to the importance of the traditional knowledge and skills that Canadian rangers bring to the Canadian Armed Forces, they are not subject to a compulsory retirement age. Many Canadian rangers, in every sense of the word, end up being rangers for life. Whether it is a critical search and rescue mission, a patrol or a large-scale Arctic sovereignty mission, knowledge of the land, coastline and climate can literally mean life or death for young members who have not become intimately familiar with their surroundings. Simply put, elder knowledge is a heck of a value proposition.

In order to satisfy operational requirements and to maintain the importance of traditional knowledge within the force structure, Canadian rangers are not subject to some physical and age requirements. For example, there is no mandatory retirement age, and this allows elders to continue playing an important role within the organization past their 60th birthday. Additionally, they are not subject to meeting the universality of service principle related to the physical fitness of regular force or primary reservists during their careers. While the Canadian rangers medical requirement on enrolment is to be physically and psychologically fit to perform foreseeable duties, a medical examination is not required. These unique conditions are essential to making this organization work, and after a thorough examination of the organization, I personally believe that it wouldn't work any other way.

What we have seen in our review of the Canadian rangers is that policies that serve us well in downtown Ottawa may not serve us well in the northern and remote locations that are served by these members. Try issuing a cheque to a Canadian ranger in a community where there is no bank, or ask someone to fill out a form online when the nearest Wi-Fi hot spot is 1,000 kilometres away. That ranger, by the way, may not speak, read, or write English or French.

This uniqueness was factored into the findings and recommendations contained in our report, and by virtue of this committee studying the needs and issues pertaining to this community, you, as members, will no doubt frame your recommendations accordingly.

Of the findings contained in our report, there are a few stand outs that I believe are especially relevant to your study. First, Canadian rangers' illness and injuries are not being consistently reported or adequately tracked. Second, the Canadian rangers' access to health care, particularly specialized medical services, is affected by the fact that most live in remote and isolated communities. Finally, most Canadian rangers are not aware of their Canadian Armed Forces health care benefit entitlements. Further to that, 89% of those interviewed did not know they were eligible for benefits administered by Veterans Affairs Canada.

These findings led my office to make four evidence-based recommendations carefully aimed at the need to better inform the Canadian ranger community, not only of their health care entitlements, but also to emphasize the importance for rangers to report their injuries, thus identifying barriers to access to these entitlements and developing and implementing a service delivery model that is responsive to the unique needs of these constituents. Our office also provided recommended timelines for the implementation of these recommendations.

In the coming months, I hope our office will issue a report card on the progress of the Canadian Armed Forces’ implementation of these recommendations. The report card will be published on our website, as we have done for all other systemic reviews. This will show Canadians that they can also track the progress on these important issues.

Some of the findings contained in this report, as well as the ability for the Canadian Armed Forces to implement the recommendations contained therein, are firmly tied to the under-resourcing of the Canadian ranger instructor cadre. The current ratio of Canadian ranger instructors to rangers and junior Canadian rangers is simply untenable. If we compare the ratios contained in our 2017 report to statistics recently provided to us by the Canadian Armed Forces, an apples-to-apples comparison, if you will, the current average ratio for full-time staff to Canadian rangers and junior Canadian rangers is 1:41 compared to 1:36 in 2017.

If we isolate these ratios specific to the Canadian ranger instructors, the ratio has jumped from an average of 1:176 in March of this year to 1:183 in September of this year. The ratio at the First Canadian Ranger Patrol Group in Yellowknife is currently 1:239.

The large administrative burdens placed on this group of individuals heavily impacts their ability to educate and support Canadian rangers in their patrols. The department has clearly indicated to our office that it recognizes this burden and is working to alleviate the overall workload. Our office will continue to track their progress in this regard.

What is clear is that a surge of effort is required to better educate and inform Canadian rangers on how they can and should be supported during their daily operations and when they become ill or injured as a result of those activities. Knowing that they are well supported by both their chain of command as well as health care providers will improve efficiency of operations and morale moving forward.

It is my hope that these recommendations contained in the report are implemented swiftly. The responses from both the Minister of National Defence and the Canadian Army have been encouraging to our office.

Ladies and gentlemen of the committee, before my team and I take some questions, I want to once again thank you for your efforts to provide evidence-based recommendations to government relating to the defence community. Your efforts do not go unnoticed.

On your trip up north, speak not only with those who are paraded in front of you but to those who work behind the scenes. In the ombudsman’s office, we are often privy to what I call the ground truth. We hear many buzzwords and fancy initiatives. Sometimes there's action on the ground, but more times there isn't. We know, because we still get calls, emails and in-person communications from these individuals. As I've always said, evidence doesn’t lie.

We are now free to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Thank you.

We'll start with Ms. Wagantall for six minutes,

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much, sir, for being here and sharing this information with us. It's very timely for us as we go up to Yellowknife.

I want to jump right into the issue of ratio of full-time staff. We're going to Yellowknife, where it's 1:239. Where is that full-time staff located?

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

Most likely it's in Yellowknife, and one CRPG would be based in Yellowknife.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

You were talking about the problem with, when rangers do have an injury or an illness, getting them to fill out the proper paperwork and do what they're supposed to do. Would that fall under the responsibility of that one person dealing with—

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

The Canadian ranger instructor would be responsible for those.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

It's not working. What really practical changes would need to be made so that this doesn't happen?

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

When you talk about ratios, it's simply a manning issue. This is a resourcing issue.

I've talked to some Canadian ranger instructors who have spent from 160 to 200 days a year in travel just out to the patrol groups. As I said, that's just not sustainable. This is a straight-up resourcing issue. If we could bring those ratios to what I would feel would be an acceptable level, then I think we could start to have that opportunity to educate the rangers on what their entitlements are and what the benefits are.

Reporting of injuries is difficult across the Canadian Armed Forces. There is a certain mentality that comes to bear, and the rangers have been a little more isolated than most. I'm not quite sure their awareness level is where it should be.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

In that case, the first thing we think is that it's an awareness issue for them of why it's important to —

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

It's an education and awareness issue.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

The government, through its new defence policy, has committed to increasing the size and effectiveness of the Canadian rangers. I'd like to know, in your opinion, if that is advisable and achievable under the current structure.

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

I believe anything is achievable.

I would go back and pound the drum again that we cannot continue to increase those ratios. We have to bring those into line to something that's sensible and can be managed. For someone to have 1:239 and probably 16 or 17 communities to visit and then there are patrols they have to conduct every year, if we're going to resource it properly, attracting the rangers is one issue. I think the primary issue is making sure that the Canadian ranger instructor group is well supported and is flush enough so that they can take on those additional duties. Just to add more people into a system without putting structure behind it will be problematic.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Did you actually travel to Yellowknife as part of your—

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

Personally I went to Yellowknife and Behchoko, and Gimli, but these ladies have travelled extensively across the country, to all five CRPGs.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

In your envisioning of what it should look like with more support there, right now the ratio is 1:239 in Yellowknife. What would be a reasonable expectation to shore that up so that it could function efficiently?

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

I believe that ratio will not be balanced across the country. When you look at some Canadian ranger instructors, their patrol groups can be within 200 or 300 kilometres of where they are. Other patrol groups may be considerably farther than that and they may have more groups.

I think the ratio will have to be dependent on the geographical situation and the size of the patrol units that the instructor is overseeing. I think it will vary across the country.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

When they sign up would that not be an ideal time to do that first overhaul initiation of what those privileges are as far as support and care are concerned?

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

I would fully agree with that. Yes, it would be a great opportunity to get them at the first stage.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Has that not happened?

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

There is a program that has been put in place where they're bringing the rangers closer to the centre to do some heavy training and to give them orientation for a few weeks. I think that is starting to have a positive effect on the ground, but it's going to be a while before that ripples across the organization completely. I still go back to the Canadian ranger instructors. I think that's the group that needs support.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Okay. Are you aware of numbers for up north in these various locations as to how many served as rangers but are now veterans?

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

As I said, there is no mandatory retirement age for the rangers. They serve, and they serve for life. I've met rangers who have been in their seventies, elders in their community, with a wealth of information and they stay engaged. To give a definite number for veterans who have left the ranger cadre, it's a number I do not have. Sorry.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

So part of the issue there, or I guess the advantage in some ways, is some of our armed forces would see that they don't have to deal with universality of service, but they also don't go into combat. It's a very different dynamic from the rest of the armed forces.

3:50 p.m.

Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman

Gary Walbourne

It is a very unique group.