Evidence of meeting #97 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Acting Director, Systemic Investigations, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
That came up for sure.
Another point that was raised when we were talking to the rangers was their reticence to report injuries. They downplay the extent of the injury. For example, frostbite might be something that we consider to be quite severe, but it might not be considered quite as severe in other communities.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
How do we show our appreciation? I read somewhere that some of them are 50 to 60 years in service. What are we doing to recognize them? What process is in place? Can we improve that piece?
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
The Canadian Armed Forces do a good job recognizing their members. There's a series of medals, and there are medals for a certain theatre versus another one. The Canadian rangers are part and parcel of that. They're treated the same as others. For exceptional service, there is merit and a reward for that.
I don't know if we need to do anything exceptional. Again, I would like to see more instructors on the ground. Maybe we could do a little more of that.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Gary, thank you for your service over the years.
On page 22 of this September 27 report, you give recommendations. There are four of them, with some subrecommendations under three and four. Have you seen movement on any of these recommendations?
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
Have we seen movement? The report was submitted to the department as standard operating procedure. All the recommendations were accepted. Talking to the CRPGs and the commanding officers of the CRPGs, they are working towards them.
Could I give you a concrete detailed plan of what that looks like? No, but in general conversation, they're starting with the gist of the recommendations. They're asking, “How do we do this?” I believe there is movement towards getting them implemented.
We've had a tremendous relationship with the Canadian Army. They have been nothing but open, honest and sharing information back and forth. When they saw it, they called it the way they saw it, and I have to thank them for that.
I believe the intent and spirit is behind them, but do they have anything concrete at this point in time that I could give you a Gantt chart on? No, I don't think so.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
I'd like to yield the rest of my time to Mr. Martel.
Richard Martel Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
I am going to ask my question in French.
You said that it is becoming difficult for Rangers in remote areas to find information about their pay. There is no Internet in some places.
What can be done about that? It surely comes down to money and resources. How can we address this challenge facing Rangers in remote areas? The language must also be a factor. We must find solutions.
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
I think there are many solutions.
The Canadian ranger instructors, yet again, are the folks who are left with the responsibility to ensure that members are paid. We not only pay them for their service with us, but if we use their equipment—it's called an equipment usage rate—for the use of a snowmobile while on patrol, that's paid in cash. That is done by the Canadian ranger instructor.
I don't think we're going to build IT infrastructure across the north in the very near future, and I think it's going to come back to having ample resources from the Canadian ranger instructor cadre to be able to do this job.
I'm sorry to come back with one answer, but there are no immediate solutions. There are things we could do to start to relieve the pressure, and I think the Canadian ranger instructors are one of the groups we need to be looking at primarily.
Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
So who is able to provide more resources to the Rangers? The government or the Canadian Forces?
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
The responsibility for the rangers clearly falls within the Canadian Armed Forces. The chief of the defence staff determines what the priorities are on staffing and the allocation of resources. That's all within the purview of his authority.
Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
In your opinion, do the Canadian Forces show a willingness to improve the process for the Rangers? Do they have the financial resources to do so? Money makes the world go round.
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
Well, I'll let you ask the Minister of National Defence if they have the resources.
When I look at the plan to increase the rangers, that comes with a cost behind it. That has been costed forward. Has it been funded? I'm not privy to that information. It comes down again to the priority. That priority is set by Department of National Defence. Once the priority is established, the funding comes in behind it.
Has that happened at this point in time? I don't have visibility on that. Sorry.
Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
I would like to address the training of the Rangers. Does their training vary according to the area they cover? Do those in remote areas receive the same general training as all other Rangers? Should training vary from one area to another?
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
It's a bit of both.
Basically the rangers are all the same type; the groups are the same.
Their overarching training and information sharing is the same. There may be anomalies across different CRPGs because of the remoteness of a community or the position of a community, or the activity within that CRPG. There may be different levels of training, dependent on operational tempo, or needs and desires of the department. However, the general macro overview is the same for all rangers.
Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, CPC
I'm curious as to why medical examinations are not mandatory for the Rangers. Is it because of their age or because there is a shortage? Some of them may not be in good physical condition.
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
As I say, when the ranger is elected into the patrol, there is a review of whether the individual is physically and psychologically fit, a series of questions, and watching their physical activity.
I would caution again that rules that work south of 60 don't work so well north of 60.
I'll go back to the response I gave earlier. In that community, it's inherent.... Diabetes starts early. Heart disease comes in early. If we decide that we're going to put them through the same rigours as we do everyone else, you're going to start losing rangers quickly.
I would caution again to make sure that anything we do north of 60 has taken into consideration that community, not only their needs, but their current position.
Shaun Chen Scarborough North, Lib.
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Walbourne, Ms. Hynes and Ms. Hansen-Reeder for being here today.
I want to first congratulate Mr. Walbourne on his upcoming retirement. He has served for many years in our public service. Without a doubt, I wish him all the best as he moves on to the next chapter in his life.
Mr. Walbourne, you talked about, in the training of our troops, the values, and the importance of honesty, learning and purpose. Certainly, I believe your office plays an important role to ensure that those values are upheld when we consider our Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. You have in the past spoken up about fairness. You have talked about challenging the status quo.
I had the pleasure of meeting a few rangers who were part of the first patrol group among a group of 1,800 who serve across 60 patrols in Nunavut, Northwest Territories and Yukon. That was when I participated in the Canadian Armed Forces parliamentary program aboard the HMCS Charlottetown, which sailed from St. John's up to Iqaluit. It was my first experience meeting the rangers. I was quite impressed with their professionalism and their demonstration of the various activities and functions they perform. I was also very baffled to see, when I went to the area corner store, a bag of chips for $8 and a bottle of water for $10. That illustrated to me the challenges of working in the north and the important role that the rangers play.
Going back to your work, what would be one message you could leave us with respect to the rangers? We've talked about a number of things today, including access to medical services and banking in the north. Is there a big message you could leave us with in terms of what needs to be challenged? How can we make better what we are doing in terms of how we serve the rangers? For everything they have done to serve our country, what would that message be?
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
The message from me personally would be this: Let's give the ranger instructors the resources they need so that they can go and do what needs to be done on the ground—spending time with their patrols, educating their patrols, and helping them if there should be an illness or injury. It's critical. Just bringing more rangers into the system and not increasing those who manage and oversee that group I think is going to be a grave error.
I have spent a lot of time with the rangers. As I say about every group I spend time with, they're exceptional. They're unique. The sense of pride, the relationships they have, the welcome you receive when you go there—I think those are the attributes we look for in people. I think we already have it. Let's not just give them lip service, though. If we're going to increase the size and put more rangers on the ground because that's the government's desire, then let's make sure we resource it properly. I would hate to be listening to a story three or five years from now where there are 8,000 rangers and the ratio is 1:400. That won't help us at all.
The rangers are a good group. I talked about the elder transfer of knowledge. It is amazing the respect they hold in the community, the sway they have. We need to get in on the ground and talk to the rangers. What are their needs? There will be some expectations that we won't be able to meet, but we should be able to give them at least what we give south of 60.
Scarborough North, Lib.
Unlike our other units of the Canadian Armed Forces, the rangers don't participate in military operations. They are not subject to the same principles that apply there. Can you share with us why that distinction was made, to your understanding, and whether that is working in the context of the work they do?
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
First of all, I want to go back and make a point. They do participate in military operations, such as search and rescue, surveillance on the land, those types of things. Those are militarily instructed functions. That puts them into that fray.
To go back to my earlier response, when we look at that community and we look at some of the things that are inherent in that community—diabetes comes to mind quickly, as does heart disease—those things happen much more frequently in that community than they do in others. If we decide that universality of service will be applied, you won't have rangers in the north. This is what I talk about when I say to go to the community and talk to those people. They manage themselves very well. They are very self-sufficient and very able to respond as we demand.
I know there is talk right now. The chief of the defence staff has said they're going to look at universality of service across the board. I think that is a good thing going forward. I think we should allow that to come to fruition. But I don't think imposing, again, a south of 60 policy on north of 60 will help our national security or allow us to grow the rangers at the pace that we would like.
Scarborough North, Lib.
With respect to rangers who are no longer able to perform service because of injury or illness, are they receiving the same supports that are available to veterans through Veterans Affairs Canada? Is there any differentiation in the level of supports and service?
Ombudsman, National Defence and Canadian Forces Ombudsman
There is no differentiation in the entitlement, to what they are entitled.
When I look at the statistics, I see that 89% did not know they were able to participate or have access to Veterans Affairs Canada benefits. That tells me I have a problem. They had the same entitlement as any other member of the Canadian Armed Forces depending on the type of contract they were employed on.
