Veterans Affairs Committee on March 12th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

It's rock paper scissors now.

Mr. Fillmore.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you.

It's great to see a fellow Nova Scotian here. Thank you for being here, all of you. It's much appreciated.

I wanted to ask a question, first, to your group.

I understand that VAC has been reviewing the findings of VRAB—which I think is what you called yourself, if I can use that abbreviation—in an effort to understand how they can do better. VAC reports that its approval rate has increased by approximately 20%, which I think is a great outcome.

I wanted to ask you, first of all, if you sense that change. Second of all, digging a little deeper on this, what do you see as the main reasons that the board is disagreeing with VAC? Could you talk to those two things, please?

[Christopher McNeil]

First, yes, tinnitus is a classic example. For quite a bit of time, VAC had a narrow view of entitlement for tinnitus. The board had been essentially granting a broader view of the same guidelines. VAC has more recently indicated that they are taking that broader view.

As I said earlier, the primary reason is evidence. We're in the evidentiary business. You have to recognize in a system where you're adjudicating claims and you're trying to get the most through, that some of these claims are just going to need a little more evidence.

The other reason, primarily, is we have a much broader discretion. We have the power by legislation and a broader discretion than VAC adjudicators have to sometimes get over those gaps. We have evidentiary rules, we have the most favourable burden of proof on any piece of legislation in Canada and we have the advantage to make those rules work for veterans when they come before us. I think I would say those two reasons: evidence and we have a broader discretion.

[Jacques Bouchard]

If I may, as well, unlike Veterans Affairs Canada, other than testimony, veterans have something that no other country has, which is the Bureau of Pensions Advocates. It represents them at their claims, and so they can centralize that argument for them a little bit more and get them to understand what the EEGs are, what they mean, how they fit within the table of disabilities, all of these issues. So, when it's presented to us, most often it's much more of a concise case, and it's the same for the Royal Canadian Legion.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Okay. Thank you.

Just briefly, you mentioned something that you called the “boomerang effect”. I didn't quite get it. Can you just elaborate on that?

[Christopher McNeil]

Yes, and Ray McInnis talked about it.

At VAC, early in 2018, our legislation essentially allowed us to award entitlement on a full basis or on a partial basis. VAC reviewed those partial entitlements and realized that there was a huge subjectivity in it: there was no fairness in the system, and two veterans similarly situated could end up with two different amounts of disability. So they implemented a policy that essentially said that if you have partial entitlement, everybody will be awarded four-fifths or five-fifths. Obviously, that opened the door to a whole bunch of people who had been previously awarded at one-fifth, say, to come forward and say, “I want the benefit of the new, more favourable adjudicator”, and there's simply no provision needed on basic principles of fairness or in law to deny them that opportunity to bring it forward, and so all of those cases are coming back.

On hearing loss and tinnitus, between us and VAC, I'd say in excess of about 95% has been awarded in the last year. There are a whole bunch of hearing loss cases out there. Hearing loss was much more restricted when I started five years ago, and you had a very difficult chance, unless you could establish something. So there is a group of veterans who are now bringing it forward and saying again that, “I want the benefit of that more favourable, more informed, updated policy”, and we must give them that opportunity.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you. I'm glad to hear there's improvement on that front, on the tinnitus front.

I'll turn to the transition group for a moment. First of all, I appreciate your work, and I see among the serving and veteran community that I represent that there is a lot of work and energy being placed on the transition where CAF leaves off and VAC picks up. There's a great deal of appreciation, I would say, in the community for that, and so thank you for that work.

You mentioned strong, secure and engaged, and one of the goals of strong, secure and engaged is to make sure military members will only be released once all the benefits, including back benefits and accessibility to those benefits, are in place. I'm just wondering if you feel that goal has been achieved and how we're doing on that.

[BGen Mark Misener]

Thanks very much for the question.

I guess to answer directly, I think we're doing fairly well on it. Since we stood up the transition group, we've grown our capability in the organization. I've also been able to up-rank the rank of the commanding officers and, therefore, devolve more authority down to them. That's also allowed me to implement a protocol for readiness to transition. Right around the time we stood up, I've asked them all, I've directed them all, that before anybody gets out, they're going to do a transition interview directly with them and their sergeant major.

Really what we're doing is working through it, in an interview, one-on-one or they can bring their family with them. We're working through the domains of well-being to assess their readiness to transition. I talked about professional, personalize, standardize, and on a very personal level, we're looking at each of their domains of well-being and assessing. Therefore, regardless of what happened before, sort of 90 to 100 days before they leave, we're looking at where they are, if they're ready for transition and, if not, if they need more time and what would they do with it.

Generally, it's to learn more about ourselves. It's to confirm that we've done a good job, and if not, it's also just to confirm if there's anything else we can do in a reasonably short amount of time to better prepare that member and the family to transition.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much. I have to cut you off there. I'm sorry.

Up next for six minutes is MP Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

A few weeks ago, I had the pleasure of attending the hearing of three cases at the Veterans Review and Appeal Board, in Quebec City. My questions will concern the board.

Once the claim is submitted, how long does the process take, on average?

[Jacques Bouchard]

It takes approximately 16 weeks in total, from the registration of the case to the hearing and decision.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Perfect.

How long does it take from the time the board sits until the veteran receives a response?

[Jacques Bouchard]

This period is included in the 16 weeks.

At the end of each hearing, we inform the veteran that they'll receive our decision in six to eight weeks. From time to time, there may be a small hitch. For example, we may need to clarify a point of law before we render our decision. However, most of the time, the period is six to eight weeks.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

How many board members are there in Quebec?

[Jacques Bouchard]

In Quebec, we have only one board member right now. However, our francophone or bilingual board members travel all over the place. In Quebec, we hold hearings two to three weeks a month now. It's one of our busiest positions.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

How many board members are there in Canada?

[Jacques Bouchard]

In Canada, we have 16 board members right now. We've started a recruitment process aimed at hiring a few more board members by the end of June.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Does the process take longer in Quebec because there's only one board member?

[Jacques Bouchard]

I would say no, but I'll qualify my answer.

In 2018, the wait times may have been a little longer, because we didn't have as many board members who could process cases in Quebec. However, we hired a few more board members that year and we managed to get back on track, so to speak. Our cases in Quebec, which amount to about 37% of all the cases processed, are no longer really behind schedule in relation to the other cases.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay. You spoke earlier of changing and shortening your process to more easily meet the demand. Can you explain how the process was shortened? What has been streamlined: the bureaucracy, the procedures, the documentation requirements?

[Jacques Bouchard]

We focused on the simplest cases, such as cases of tinnitus or hearing loss. Based on the department's new policies, which are more generous to veterans, we've grouped these cases together. This helps us make decisions much more quickly.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have another question. I'm surprised by the high rate of favourable decisions rendered by the board, which stands at 44%. Is the process followed by the department, before cases reach the board, too stringent? I understand the reasoning behind the tinnitus cases, which I'm not including here.

[Jacques Bouchard]

I believe that Mr. McNeil already discussed this. First, unlike the department, we're able to hear the veterans' testimonies. Second, veterans can ask the Bureau of Pensions Advocates or the Royal Canadian Legion for help to learn exactly how the board works and how to prepare their cases for us. That's really the reason for this percentage.

I don't think that we need to look for any other reason. It would be up to the minister to consider possible improvements. However, from our perspective, we're certainly prepared to accept more cases, because I think that we can process them. We're quite prepared to rule on any of the cases currently under review in the department.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In your opinion, is this favourable rate of 44% high, normal, satisfactory?

[Jacques Bouchard]

Our current average rate is actually even higher. It stands at about 70%, if we include cases filed under the more favourable policies.

I want to take this opportunity to thank you for being in Quebec City on February 14. I know that our members and veterans appreciated your visit.