Veterans Affairs Committee on March 8th, 2021

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

I'm sorry. I don't know if you had more to say there, but unfortunately it's time.

Up next is Deputy Desilets, please, for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to tell the witnesses that two and a half minutes go by very quickly.

Mr. Lavallée, are you able to describe to me some of the feelings that military members and their families have about this system and this bureaucracy?

I would also ask the other witnesses to put those feelings into words, please.

[Richard Lavallée]

I'm going to refrain from saying some words, because they are not very nice. When people are discouraged by the bureaucracy, we sometimes hear discouraging words that are not very pretty. Often, they don't trust the system anymore and they are sick of fighting against it.

Earlier, I was listening to Ms. Malette, who did a good job of describing what a family might experience. There is the military member who has major difficulties, there is the bureaucracy that complicates the process, there are the collateral effects on the wife and kids, and so on.

Ms. Malette is still with her husband. But how many couples give up and break up because of the complexity of the process and the lack of support? From that point on, I don't need to tell you that things go downhill.

As Ms. McLeod also said earlier, the homeless veterans she meets are not just people sleeping in a box. They have problems. We also help veterans from the Royal 22nd Regiment who have financial problems. We help them pay for groceries, gas and things like that.

With all due respect to you all, Ms. Malette, Ms. McLeod and I are in the trenches. How come we are all saying the same thing? We are all talking about the same complications that we experience all the time, albeit in different places. Ms. Malette experiences them with her family, Ms. McLeod experiences them in her region, and I experience them in my region.

It seems like you in the government are in a state of shock, like you have just learned this. That shouldn't be the case. There should be a network of crisis response systems. When you help someone who has been taken off the street or who is in serious trouble and you refer them to a help centre, that should be treated as an emergency situation.

I'm sorry, but it's like a sore full of pus. It has to be treated, and then the person can be given the other care they need. By the time we meet these people, there's a crisis. You have to respond immediately, and after that, you can take them into the system, start the whole process and make it easier for them.

We are in the trenches.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

I'm afraid that's time.

[Richard Lavallée]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Now we will go over to MP Blaney for two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Ms. Malette, could I come back to you?

I heard two things fairly clearly from your testimony. One is that veterans and their families need better systems to manoeuvre within VAC because they're long and complicated. Then if you bring in the Blue Cross, it adds another layer, so the need is for systems in place that would really support that.

The other thing you said that really moved me was that you take care of everyone else, but who looks after the needs that you have. I'm wondering what you believe is the gap that is missing for the main caregivers.

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

The caregiver recognition benefit was meant for that. Unfortunately, caregivers like me cannot access it.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

What's the barrier for you?

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

It's because my husband is able to feed himself, dress himself, bathe—the basic needs—but for everything else relies on us, and we're not recognized as caregivers for that.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

It's the barrier around clarity that the mental health aspects take a lot of time and energy.

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

I've often said it's not the money. Sometimes it's a rent-a-husband kind of a service. If somebody could help me do the basic renovations in a house that need to be done, that would alleviate a lot of stress on me. My husband, with his mental health, cannot do that sometimes. He's just too tired. It's like a cell battery that's always drained.

We have to contend with that all the time.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

Captain Cameron, thank you so much for your service.

One of the things I thought you articulated really well was that you would like to see more of a reach out to veterans to support them rather than VAC waiting for veterans to reach out to it.

Could you talk a little bit about what that might look like?

[Angus Cameron]

You wanted me to explain...?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

You talked about not knowing about the clothing supports and those things. It's VAC having the knowledge of who the veteran is and reaching out to check if there's a gap in their life and helping them fill it.

[Angus Cameron]

Yes, absolutely. That's the number one thing: to know where the veterans are and to keep track of them.

I know everybody is overworked and overtaxed with their duties, but you have people who served Canada and stood up for this government's mandate and did what they wanted them to do in wherever they were doing it. To let them slip away after they've released makes no sense.

One thing is that we have these 13.5 million Canada Post free postcards to send to a buddy, but I'm sending mine to the CEO of Canada Post and asking why the Christmas card to any Canadian soldier program is not really working. They end up in a box and they go to Scarborough where they're destroyed because they're not addressed properly. That program does not work, and it has mental health issues. You're sitting over in Afghanistan with no cards coming in. How is that affecting you? It's affecting you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt again.

Now we will go over to MP Brassard, for five minutes, please.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Chair, you're very good at interrupting, as you acknowledged earlier.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

It kills me, but that's the role.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Chair. I want to go back to Madame Malette.

I was compelled by some information that you provided, particularly in the area of your husband's case where he's able to do some things.

We've heard stories from veterans who are over the 100% limit in terms of their disability. In one case in particular that I'm aware of, this veteran has been denied the caregiver benefit five times, despite being over 100% disabled.

One of the challenges—and you mentioned it earlier—is that the veterans who are oftentimes dealing with traumatic brain injuries, occupational stress illnesses, whatever the case that gets them up to that level of disability, are so bogged down in the paperwork that it's difficult for them to receive the benefit for their caregiver.

One of the suggestions that could come out of this—and I'm interested in your opinion—is whether the caregiver himself or herself should be the one applying for these benefits, as opposed to the veteran applying directly to Veterans Affairs. I'm interested in your opinion on whether that would help or not.

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

I'm the one who applies for my husband. If he's denied, that means I'm denied. It's as simple as that, because we're the ones who are doing all the paperwork. Whether I sign my name or his name at the bottom doesn't make any difference because the language is still going to be there. The reason my husband is denied all the time is that he's physically capable of putting a spoon in his mouth, wiping his bum, washing himself and putting a shirt over his head. That's why.

The rest of it is—

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

That's what I find interesting. I would consider your husband to be partly disabled. We have veterans who are over 100% disabled, yet they're being denied. The disparity in both those situations is something that we need to get down to the bottom of.

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

The reality is that if I was not there, nothing would run properly, but he'd be able to put food in his mouth.

Who gets the food? Who does the laundry? Who does all that? It's the caregivers. It's us, but that's considered instrumental activities of daily living versus activities of daily living. That's where the difference is.