Veterans Affairs Committee on March 8th, 2021

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Cameron and Mr. Lavallée, thank you so much for the work you're doing. As the shadow minister for veterans affairs, I hear stories of individual veterans from right across the country and some of the people they're associated with who are on the ground trying to help veterans, as you do in your situations.

In the last study we heard a lot of the larger organizations receive government funding to do the work they do. One of the things we heard, particularly from Persian Gulf vets, is that they're doing a lot of that work as well, but they're not receiving anything.

Quickly, can you tell me how you're funded to do the work you do, if you are, and whether you would like to see some part of government funding going towards—I don't want to call them “fringe” organizations because you're doing great work—organizations that may not otherwise be recognized by government?

Mr. Cameron, I'll start with you.

[Angus Cameron]

It's more individual on my part. It's not really a group thing. Yes, I am part of a veterans group, and when I need a little help promoting something I'll ask my friends and members of the group, my brothers and sisters, to help.

Usually if there's any cost involved, it's absorbed by our own paycheques, but it's mostly an individual effort. It's not really an entity or a group or a thing.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Lavallée, you have the floor.

[Richard Lavallée]

I work more in the field. I work with veterans. It's a new group made up of veterans of the Royal 22nd Regiment and it's been around for about two years. Because a lot of veterans were having trouble receiving services, we decided to get together and help each other.

I know that the chair of the veterans group made a request, but I can't tell you exactly what it entailed. As I just mentioned, I am more in the field. It's Rick Gauthier. Mr. Desilets knows him. He's the one looking after all the administrative details and the documentation. I know he has made a request. It's a long process so I can't tell you what stage he has reached.

At the moment, we are financing all our activities ourselves. We make small donations. If someone in an area needs help, we contribute to buy groceries or gas cards, for example. Right now, we pay for all of that out of our own pockets. I know that we have applied and I imagine that the Royal 22nd Regiment veterans group will soon be more officially recognized by the government.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much. Again, I apologize. I keep interrupting you, sir.

I will now go to MP Lalonde for five minutes, please.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I want to say thank you, Mr. Cameron and Monsieur Lavallée, for your service to Canada, and certainly for your continued support of our veterans.

I am really pleased to meet you today.

I also want to say to our Caregivers' Brigade—and that's maybe where my questions will be focused—happy International Women's Day. I want to spend some time with you today in terms of the fantastic work that you've done in your organization in helping the caregivers and families, as you mentioned, navigate the complications and complicated post-military life services.

I know you've been focusing on PTSD. There's the peer support network, operational stress injury social support, OSISS, that was created to provide a similar service for veterans, as well as for families, friends and caregivers, while working alongside organizations like yours.

I want to get your perspective on this. When someone in your group goes to them, the OSISS, to help with a veteran who is not seeking treatment, what kind of guidance do they give? Have you found it to be effective?

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

I never referred any.... Yes, one, maybe once. It was a really long time ago, and it was somebody who was still serving. They were very scared to talk because the people within the CAF—like the bosses at higher ranks than they were—were actually trying to know what was being said. Basically, that was the message that we got back.

In terms of peer support, we've never used.... You have to understand that at Caregivers' Brigade, we're not really in touch with people. We're just sending out information.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

On your website...?

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

Yes. We have to save ourselves before we save others, unfortunately. If people come to us, yes, we will try to guide them as much as we can, but as for OSISS, my experience was that with them.

Maybe Jeanette and Paula want to add to it. I think Paula maybe had some info.

It's not to my knowledge. I don't know.

[Jeanette McLeod]

Paula, do you want to go ahead on this, please?

[Paula Ramsay]

Sure.

When it comes to the Caregivers' Brigade, what we do is not peer support. We're more or less a third party referral service, so we know of organizations like OSISS, and we can tell people what they do, but it's their choice. We know from our own experiences that it's very individual as to what kinds of services a family is going to access. I might need OSISS, or Jeanette or Marie might, but that doesn't mean that it's accepted that all three of us should need it.

It's the same with the people we serve. We know that all families are very individual. They are using our website to see what services are available. They can email us and ask us about specific services because we have some knowledge and connections there, but we don't tell people what they should be accessing.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

In your opinion, as we are looking at recommendations, what would you recommend to us in terms of helping this process be easier on caregivers and our veterans in terms of a navigation piece?

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

I would say just one pit stop where you do everything, click all that you need there and answer all the questions. I would say consider a veteran and their family as an entity, and the veteran as a whole person, not just conditions. Just doing that, you eliminate a whackload of paperwork and questions.

Here's an example. Sleep apnea is a comorbidity of PTSD. My husband has to apply to get all that he needs for his sleep apnea. It is considered a comorbidity. It means that it walks hand in hand with PTSD, but it's considered alone. It's just mind-blowing when you have to apply and to follow up each request. It's just crazy. You can't do that all the time.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Basically, the consolidation—

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm sorry. I have to cut you off there.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm sorry.

Now we'll go over to MP Wagantall for five minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much.

On what you were just saying about the complications and applying for things, I had a chat earlier with you folks from the brigade, but I don't remember who it was who talked about applying to get a shower for their husband.

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

That was me.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

It was you. Okay.

It's one more story, but it just says it so clearly. Could you briefly tell us about the dynamics around that issue with VAC?

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

My husband is six foot four and weighs 200 pounds. When his back gives way, he cannot shower himself. We had a 32-inch by 32-inch shower. We apply for VAC, do all the processes and the occupational therapist comes home and evaluates everything. We got a nice 40-inch by 40-inch walk-in shower, with a three-inch ledge. That means that when water hits it, it splashes out, because it's not deep enough. We have an eight-year-old and an 11-year-old. It looks like a water park after they shower in our bathroom.

When I asked if we could put on a shower door to eliminate that, they said no, that the shower was made for the veteran, and the veteran can shower with a shower curtain. We were denied. They built a $9,000 shower in our bathroom, but we need to have a shower curtain because it was built for the veteran, not for us. That puts more strain on us, because each night I have to mop and clean an entire bathroom, each time.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

It's just another one of those examples where it's so frustrating when they say that when the veteran serves, the family serves with them.

To you, and to the other gals as well, the term “the war at home” is something that you, as the Caregivers' Brigade, use. Can you define that a bit for us today? What does that mean?

[Marie-Andrée Malette]

We're constantly fighting it. The war in Afghanistan hasn't stopped in my husband's head. At night, when he has nightmares, I'm the one that's sitting in the tank next to him.

[Jeanette McLeod]

There's a bit that I would like to add to that too. As Marie was saying, when we say “the war at home”, the words do say it all. They brought the war home with them. We're living it with them every day.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

What about family? What about the children?