Veterans Affairs Committee on March 22nd, 2021

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

You also talked about the fact that, and I think you said 56% of veterans with mental disabilities are married or in a common-law relationship. This means there's a large portion of veterans who are not in a relationship.

One thing we've heard is that sometimes it's very hard for female and male veterans who are single to get supports from who they designate as a caregiver.

Do you have anything to reflect on in that area?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's time, sir, but I'll allow for a brief answer, please.

[Sean Bruyea]

It's a very tragic situation that needs to be addressed and I would think a multidisciplinary team can help fill that gap that families would normally fill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

We'll go over to MP Davidson, for five minutes, please.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Mr. Chair, it's going to be me, MP Brassard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Oh, that's my mistake.

MP Brassard, please.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Bruyea, I mentioned that I'd come back to you. I have a simple question.

Would you say that you have successfully challenged successive governments in some of the claims they've made with respect to certain benefit provisions that are applied to veterans? Would that be a fair assessment to make?

[Sean Bruyea]

In the public opinion field, yes, I think I have. Has government done anything to change it? No.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

You were involved in a highly publicized situation that involved your son. It goes back several years, to his education. I want to focus a little on dependants. Ms. Blaney started us down this path.

You challenged then veterans affairs minister O'Regan in a column for a pension for life article that you had written. Minister O'Regan wrote back, there was a defamation suit filed by you, and then the day after that article appeared, the benefits to your son were cut off. I know that the veterans ombudsman wrote a report with respect to that, that basically deemed it as retaliatory.

I wonder if you could share with the committee your experiences there. I will be cutting you off at the four-minute mark because I have another question to ask you, but could you share with us what you've experienced through that?

[Sean Bruyea]

Thank you.

As you know, Mr. Brassard, I usually come here and advocate for policy change and on behalf of other veterans. It is very difficult for me as a veteran to speak personally about what I go through. I can't tell you all, members of the committee, how difficult it is to see the effects of my [Technical difficulty—Editor] PTSD has on my family.

I'll try to keep it together here, but I can tell you that when they cut off that care, it was devastating. The timing of it, of course, was the immediate link, but as we progressed I discovered that my case manager didn't keep any case management notes as to why she cut off that care. I found that assistant deputy ministers were intruding and preventing all opportunities, including appointments of inquiries resolution officers, to try to find an answer as to how to get that care back.

For me personally and my family, they've watched me spiral out of what was really.... I had advanced so far in my rehabilitation plan up until that day, and then they saw me attend hospital appointments, go to emergency wards once a month at least, and I can tell you, every single appointment, whether it was for mental health care, massage or physiotherapy, was preoccupied with addressing the negative effects of VAC going after my family.

Veterans have very little self-esteem when they come out with PTSD. They have such a low sense of having accomplished anything. Their families are the one solid backbone for them, as we've heard from all testimony today. When that family is attacked, and we're not talking about just not supported, but when the care of a six-year-old boy, our son, was attacked at that time, it was something I'm still recovering from.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

I can tell.

You've mentioned at the beginning of the answer you gave about policy changes and in your opening remarks that you'd like to come back to the committee to talk about and maybe expand on some of your experiences about a culture change within VAC as well.

If we were to invite you back, and I know you mentioned a couple of other names as well, your advocate Allan Hunter, and Tina Fitzpatrick, what is it that you would hope to share with the committee in a longer fashion?

[Sean Bruyea]

I would really like to show the trail of how decisions are made, how senior bureaucrats interfere with frontline workers, the burden that's placed on frontline workers, what little time they have to help with their veterans when they're being case-managed. I'd be able to show overall how that culture works.

I would also be able to show a cultural insensitivity to the needs of veterans and their families. For instance, more than 30 different communications went to that department, to Deputy Minister Walter Natynczyk, to Assistant Deputy Minister Bernard Butler and Michel Doiron, and they documented the harm that was being done to myself, my son and my wife. Never once after those 30 emails was there an email or a letter that came back and said, “I'm sorry to hear you guys are hurting.” There was never an acknowledgement of that suffering.

I think that culture pervades the entire department from the senior bureaucracy that has really lost touch with what it means to care for veterans and families. Then, unfortunately, they allow personal bias against someone such as me who criticized them, to take retaliation against the veteran or the family.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Bruyea.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Now we'll go to MP Casey, please, for five minutes.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. White, I had the honour to serve with Peter Stoffer, an absolutely fine gentleman, but I can honestly tell you that I have never ever heard anyone use the words “Peter Stoffer” and “saint” in the same sentence.

I have a brief story, if I may. Peter was one of these guys who would go through Parliament and call every single person by name. It didn't matter whether it was another MP, a security guard or somebody in the cafeteria. He called everyone by name. The reason he was able to do that is that he thought everyone's name was “Buddy”.

Mr. White, I'm going to begin with the other patron saint you referenced: Dr. MacKinnon.

Dr. MacKinnon, in your remarks, you talked about the challenges associated with caseworkers or with the availability of caseworkers. This has been a vexing problem over the years. It's certainly one that we inherited and have put a lot of money into, for more caseworkers with smaller caseloads. I would like to hear from you if you could elaborate a bit more on this caseworker challenge. We do hear a lot from the union about it. I would like your advice on how we solve that.

[Dr. Heather MacKinnon]

Well, you've just solved it by saying, “more caseworkers with smaller caseloads”. That would be fantastic.

The other thing is that when people do get a caseworker, they're very good and they work hard for them, but the problem is that they don't have them very long. They are often told, “Well, you don't need one anymore.” That's not the case. People deteriorate. They change. Situations develop, and they don't have anybody. I think this is where it doesn't work.

I really think that veterans need a caseworker, a manager or somebody who is theirs to contact. Like Tracy—she should have somebody that's always hers to call for them. I think if we could just have more of that, a lot more problems would be sorted out and solved.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you.

Dr. Whelan, I would like to turn to you for a moment. There's a program called “VAC assistance service”. It's a 24-7 toll-free telephone service. Is this a program with which you are familiar? Is this a program that refers cases to you or your clinic?

[Dr. John Whelan]

No, Mr. Casey, it's not a program that I'm familiar with. Most of the people we saw.... I should say that at the end of 2019, before COVID, that clinic was closed, just because there was so much frustration and burnout among our staff that, really, it's back to individuals. To answer your question, it's not a service that I'm aware of.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

When you say you closed the clinic, do you mean the clinic that serves veterans or that you closed your practice altogether?

[Dr. John Whelan]

No. I closed the clinic itself just because I had staff retiring and just because of the years of frustrations and just not being able to do other types of work that have shown a benefit. It was just time on that....

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Allow me to ask you about another program that's offered: the occupational stress injury social support group. This is something that I know is active here in Charlottetown and provides an excellent network for veterans and their families. Have you had experience with that through your practice or otherwise and can you offer a comment on it?

[Dr. John Whelan]

Yes. I'm very familiar with OSISS and the workers here in Nova Scotia.

It has changed quite a bit over time. There were a lot of conditions put on it. Veterans would go and then didn't feel safe, in that they couldn't really talk about things that were of concern to them. There were strict rules around what could and could not be discussed. Initially, we used to advise people “yes”, and then we became much more judicious about that, in that it would cause them more harm to attend than not, actually.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

That's almost your time. You have about 10 seconds, Sean.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Now we will go to MP Wagantall, please, for five minutes.