Veterans Affairs Committee on April 28th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Welcome to meeting number 22 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Today's meeting is taking place in the hybrid format that we're all becoming accustomed to.

I've been made aware that there may be one vote or a number of votes during this meeting. When the bells start ringing, I will be asking for unanimous consent to sit through the bells. We can then suspend to go and vote, and then look into possibly resuming the meeting once the voting period ends. I just wanted to make sure that everyone was aware of that.

Today, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) in the motion adopted by the committee on October 27, 2020, the committee is commencing its study on a strategy for commemorations in the 21st century.

Welcome to all of the witnesses who have taken the time to join us today. First and foremost, I want to thank all of you.

I will introduce each of you, and then I will give you each five minutes for your opening remarks. I will give you a warning when you have one minute left. Don't panic, a minute is quite a long time to wrap things up. You'll see me do this throughout the meeting, not just in the opening comments but in the question period when time is getting short.

First, from the Canadian War Museum, we have Caroline Dromaguet, director general. From the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, we have David Loveridge, area director, Canada and the Americas. From Juno Beach Centre Association, we have Don Cooper, president. From the RCMP Heritage Centre, we have Steve McLellan, board chair. From the Vimy Foundation, we have Caitlin Bailey, executive director.

We're going to start the opening remarks with Ms. Dromaguet.

The next five minutes are all yours.

[Caroline Dromaguet, Director General, Canadian War Museum]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for inviting me to appear before you today. As mentioned, my name is Caroline Dromaguet, I'm the director general of the Canadian War Museum. It is a pleasure to be here to talk about how commemoration fits into the activities of the Canadian War Museum and to give you an overview of our strategy for inspiring and educating Canadians, at home and abroad, in recognition of the service and sacrifice of all who have served.

The Canadian War Museum is Canada's national museum of military history. It acquires and maintains relevant artifacts for its national collection, and it disseminates knowledge through research, exhibitions and public programs. The museum is a venue and facilitator for informed discussion on military history.

Our mission is to promote public understanding of Canada's military history in its personal, national and international dimensions. In other words, we look at how war has affected Canadians as individuals, how it has shaped our country, and how, in times of war, Canadians have influenced world events. We do this through exhibitions, events, programs and partnerships.

This serves the museum and our audiences very well. Personal stories resonate at home and abroad, and facilitate engagement with history in a real and tangible way, whether our visitors are onsite at the museum or engaging with us virtually or on social media.

Although our mandate is not one of commemoration, many of our projects and initiatives are intertwined with the commemoration of important events in Canadian military history.

Since we last presented before this committee in 2011, the Canadian War Museum has completed a successful, multi-year program marking the centenary of the First World War. Exhibitions, public programs, educational initiatives and publications incorporated numerous personal stories, developing and encouraging new knowledge about the First World War.

The personal experiences of more than 40 Canadians are the basis of our current special exhibition, Forever Changed, one of the many initiatives we presented in 2020 to mark the 75th anniversary of the end of the Second World War.

As with all of our projects, the exhibition reflects the experiences of a diverse range of Canadians within many different contexts.

The diversity of voices is also reflected in our ongoing collection of oral histories. More than 500 oral histories have been recorded to date, most of them capturing the voices of veterans from the Second World War to Afghanistan.

Partnerships are also critical to us. We collaborate regularly with a wide range of national and international partners—some of whom are on this call today—by contributing historical expertise, sharing artifacts from the national collection or partnering to host live and virtual events.

The challenges resulting from COVID-19 highlighted and accelerated the need to make more of our content available digitally. The War Museum was able to respond quickly, offering rich online exhibitions and resources as well as dynamic, relevant and engaging virtual programs reflecting the 75th anniversary of the end of the Second World War.

We also offered digital resources for our supply line discovery boxes, which support educators teaching the First and Second World Wars.

In November 2020, we launched a new online resource for Remembrance Day, providing materials that make it easier to produce lessons and ceremonies to commemorate the service of Canada's military personnel—in classrooms, at home, or in the wider community.

Engagement with our social media channels—where we share many personal stories and commemorative anniversaries with audiences around the world—has risen 17% over the past year.

Despite the challenges posed by the pandemic, the Canadian War Museum remains a key national resource for the sharing of Canada's military history.

The museum continues to evolve and change in order to remain relevant to the 21st century. For example, we developed in 2017 a new gallery involving the conflicts in Afghanistan. We are also developing a framework to guide the renewal of the museum's galleries in response to demographic and societal changes in Canada. This renewal will include the addition of a new dimension to the presentation of Canada's military history to help explain our world in the 21st century.

Exhibitions, products and programs are all part of our mandate, which intertwines with commemoration.

I look forward to answering any questions you may have regarding the War Museum and its programming.

Thank you very much for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much. That was almost exactly on time, so thank you for that, but that's not to set up expectations for anybody else.

Mr. Loveridge, the next five minutes are yours.

[David Loveridge, Director, Canada and Americas Area, Commonwealth War Graves Commission]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon. My name is David Loveridge. I'm the director for the Canada and Americas area of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. I'd like to thank you for the opportunity to speak to you today about the work of the commission here in Canada and around the globe.

The CWGC has a very clear mandate, which was set out when we were established by royal charter during the First World War to commemorate the First World War dead from the British Empire through having their name engraved either on a headstone or on a memorial to the missing.

The royal charter defines three main roles for the commission, which include: to mark and maintain the graves of Commonwealth forces who died during the two world wars; to build and maintain memorials to the dead whose graves are unknown; and finally, to keep appropriate records and registers.

The CWGC commemorates casualties who died during two fixed time periods corresponding to the official start and end dates of both world wars. They start from August 14, 1914, and go to August 31, 1921, and the second period is September 3, 1939, to December 31, 1947.

Today, the commission commemorates 1.7 million Commonwealth war dead in 150 countries and in 23,000 cemeteries around the globe, including Canada's 110,000 war dead, who are interred in 73 different countries in some 65 cemeteries around the world as well.

The commission's work was and continues to be based on principles that each war dead should be commemorated individually, permanently and uniformly, with no distinction made based on civilian rank, military rank, race or creed. These principles are a fundamental reason that Canada, along with its Commonwealth partners, adopted a non-repatriation policy of its war dead during the two world wars.

The commission is organized for operational purposes in six distinct operational areas, each of which reports to our head office in Maidenhead in the United Kingdom, just west of London. As the director of Canada and the Americas area of the CWGC, my remit is to carry out the commission's charter within North, Central and South America as well as the Caribbean. It includes more than 20,000 war graves in over 3,400 burial grounds in 32 countries. The majority of these casualties are buried and commemorated in Canada.

The work of the commission [Technical difficulty—Editor] cemeteries and memorials are truly Commonwealth. For example, the maintenance and security of the Beny-sur-Mer and Holten Canadian war cemeteries in France and the Netherlands are the responsibility of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, not of Canada.

Similarly, there are more than 200 Commonwealth war dead buried in Beechwood Cemetery here in Ottawa, including casualties from the forces of Canada, obviously, of Australia, of Britain and of New Zealand, all of whom are cared for by our team here in Canada.

In addition to our charter work, we do what we call agency services. These are tasks performed for various governments outside of our two world war charter tasks. Agency work is expanding in scope each year as governments and other organizations approach the Commonwealth War Graves Commission to take on maintenance of their graves and/or memorials.

By way of example, overseas the commission maintains Vimy, Beaumont-Hamel and other Canadian and Newfoundland World War I battlefield memorial sites in France and Belgium. On behalf of the Government of Canada we also maintain graves of those who died overseas postwar or in South Africa and Japan during the Boer and Korean wars.

In Canada we've been contracted by Veterans Affairs Canada to participate in the veterans graves inventory program, whereby we inspect, repair and record veterans' graves across Canada on their behalf. We are currently in year three of a five-year project with Veterans Affairs assisting them with a backlog of maintenance to some 68,000 veterans' graves in the province of Ontario. Since the start of our work with Veterans Affairs, the CWGC have found, photographed and entered into the VAC database some 205,000 veterans' graves across Canada.

The approximately $134-million cost of the commission's work is shared by our six partner governments: Australia, Canada, India, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and South Africa, who proportionally pay based on the number of graves from each nation. Canada is the second largest contributor to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, with an annual contribution of just over 10% of our total commission budget, or about $13 million last fiscal year.

The organization has several oversights. We have a board consisting of the high commissioners of our member countries—so the Canadian high commissioner in London is the representative on the commission board—plus a distinguished group of individuals appointed by royal warrant for fixed terms.

The U.K. Ministry of Defence audits and is one of our larger contributors, as is a separate firm. The commission is increasingly looking for ways to reach out to Canadians and is considering how volunteers could assist in what we do, not as a way to cut costs or reduce our workforce, but as a way to supplement what we do, especially in many of the remote areas in Canada.

Over the next few years, we're going to be looking at a volunteer program in the U.K. called Eyes On, Hands On, and we're going to be looking at a volunteer program in Canada.

To quickly summarize, the commission is made up of co-operative, like-minded countries that agree to the equal treatment and commemoration of the war dead from the two world wars. Our royal charter establishes the Commonwealth War Graves Commission in perpetuity. I would find it difficult, certainly in my lifetime, to believe that any government might put up its hand and be the first to say, “We don't want or need to do this anymore.” Commission employees consider our work to be a debt of honour, and I know that most Canadians would agree that this is the right thing for us to be doing.

From a pure commemorations perspective, I believe that Canada receives value for money, for what we spend on the commission. We value our partnerships, and my office and the rest of the commission are committed to working with and assisting our long-term partner, Veterans Affairs Canada.

When people ask me what the CWGC does, I tell them that my organization is part of the guardianship and is a keeper of a significant piece of Canada's heritage—its military heritage—and I'm proud to be part of this wonderful global organization.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, sir.

Up next, for five minutes, is Mr. Cooper, please.

[Don Cooper, President, Juno Beach Centre Association]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's my privilege to have the opportunity to address you and the members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs today.

My name is Don Cooper, and I am the president of the Juno Beach Centre Association, which owns and operates the Juno Beach Centre in Normandy, France. For those of you who aren’t familiar with us, the Juno Beach Centre is Canada’s Second World War memorial, museum and cultural centre located on the D-Day landing beaches in Normandy.

The Juno Beach Centre is crucial to Canada’s commemorative efforts in Europe. It is not simply a museum about war. It's a place for testimonies and life stories. It's a historic site, interpretative centre and memorial combined.

It is also a cultural representation of the society these Second World War veterans built for their children and grandchildren and for those who would come to settle here in the decades after the war—today’s Canada.

The Juno Beach Centre was born of a simple question posed by a group of Second World War veterans. They stood on the spot where, decades earlier, they had landed as young men to begin freeing northwestern Europe from the clutches of Nazi Germany—Juno Beach, Normandy. D-Day, June 6, 1944, would become one of the most significant events in the history of the modern world.

As they looked across the sand and visited the graves of their fallen friends in Normandy, they wondered what would happen when they themselves were no longer around to share these stories. Who would remember? With the same tenacity and resilience they had had in the war, these veterans took it upon themselves to raise $12 million from public and private donors to build the Juno Beach Centre on the very stretch of beach they had landed on so many years before.

Today, the Juno Beach Centre stands as a sacred piece of Canada in France. It commemorates the story of Canadians who put their lives on hold—or sacrificed them entirely—to fight for a better world. Our founding veterans envisioned a centre that was a living memorial, a place at once of remembrance and of learning, especially for the younger generations who would be the ones to take up the torch when the veterans were no longer with us to bear witness.

Since opening in 2003, we have showcased Canada’s Second World War story to over one million visitors. Our success is the result of hard work and many passionate staff, volunteers, donors and partners. Veterans Affairs Canada has been one of our steadfast supporters. Over many years, they have generously supported our operations and our aspirations. We would not be able to do what we do without VAC.

There is perhaps no better testament to the strength of our relationship than the success of the official Canadian ceremony hosted at the Juno Beach Centre to commemorate the 75th anniversary of D-Day in 2019. For anyone who had the honour to attend, it was one of the most moving experiences imaginable, to see more than 40 veterans, now all in their nineties, once again standing on Juno Beach and remembering.

Almost 20 years since opening our doors, we have accomplished more than I can possibly mention right now. We are proud of all our achievements, but perhaps most of all, of our powerful youth programs, which bring history to life for Canadians at home and for those who travel to Juno Beach, as well as for thousands of French students who participate in our educational programs every year.

Our balanced and diverse presentation of Canada’s Second World War story includes many perspectives, including the experiences of indigenous soldiers, Black and Chinese soldiers and the many Canadians who courageously served Canada.

Our commitment is to create a space where families can learn and share together, whether they are Canadian, French or from anywhere around the world and whether or not they have a personal connection to the war. It is a profound moment each time a veteran has returned to Juno Beach with their own children and grandchildren. When they tell us we have done their stories justice, we know we have done our job.

We were invited today to provide the committee with input on the long-term Canadian strategy for commemorations as drafted by Veterans Affairs Canada. Our response is that we think the draft accurately identifies an appropriate vision and mission for the decade ahead and the necessary goals that will serve Canada well in the coming years.

The Juno Beach Centre sees itself marching in common step toward similar goals within the limitations of our World War II story of remembrance. We hope to complement and enhance the activities laid out in the VAC strategic plan and play our part in this effort. We have unique assets to manage and protect on a historic heritage site, and we will carry our message to visitors and those back home alike.

Events that celebrate key dates are an essential tool in the remembrance efforts, but as identified in the VAC plan, the real challenge is in reaching the millions of Canadians of all origins and personal histories with a common message of their shared Canadian military history. It is a history that we can be proud of and one that can bind us as a nation if properly communicated.

Recently, we also launched our new strategic plan, which sets out our path to 2024 when we will mark the 80th anniversary of D-Day.

One of our most ambitious and important goals to achieve by then is the transformation of our contemporary Canada room, the final room in our museum, that acts as a window through which Europeans can learn about Canadian culture, traditions, diversity and values, as well as the military history we impart. We aim to open this brand new, updated space for the 80th anniversary of D-Day.

A key element to this initiative, as well as all of our operations going forward, will be the integration of sustainable development principles into everything we do. It is our belief that the climate emergency facing the world is our generation's greatest battle and that to live up to the standards set by our forefathers we must again come together to safeguard the world and the peace they fought for. In alignment with the United Nations sustainable development goals for 2030, we are now transforming the museum to act as a regional and national leader in sustainable tourism. These are two of our most aspirational goals, with many others included in the blueprint for the future.

Despite the very real challenges COVID-19 has presented, we're ready to embark on the next five years of recovery and growth. Juno Beach itself has become a strong symbol of the culture and values embodied by Canada, written in the stories of the men and women who demonstrated immeasurable courage and resilience during the Second World War.

More than 75 years have passed since the bonds of friendship between nations—liberators and the liberated—were forged in fire. The JBC demonstrates how they continue today, with the shared purpose of educating newer generations about some of the most important moments in Canada's history and how they can take up the torch of remembrance to become active participants in creating a better world.

We truly believe there's no better place for Canada to share its story with the rest of the world than on Juno Beach.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, sir.

Up next we have Mr. McLellan for five minutes, please.

[Steve McLellan, Board Chair, RCMP Heritage Centre]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

I'm Steve McLellan. I'm the volunteer board chair of the RCMP Heritage Centre in Regina, Saskatchewan.

I'm speaking to you proudly from Treaty No. 4 territory and homeland of the Métis people.

Heroes and incredible efforts by our veterans deserve recognition and remembrance, and I congratulate this committee for initiating this important conversation.

New media, new media versions of our news, and greater, diverse audiences, and the ever-growing length of time from at least some of our greater-known times of war and peacekeeping make the next few years critical before memories fade and new heroes with much less national significance are raised onto the shoulders of Canadians. Sports, music and entertainment heroes are much better known these days, and while that has always to some extent been the case, it makes your task today even more important. In fact, without the efforts and sacrifices of our veterans over the past 175 years and of yesterday, the new heroes might not have been able to do what they're free to do today in Canada and abroad.

The role of the RCMP is clearly important to all Canadians, and we, too, at the RCMP Heritage Centre see the importance of commemorating our women and men often and with great pride. The military and the police services are going through some difficult times these days. We should help people who read just the headlines learn of the great work done for well over a century by these same forces and the important role they play today and will continue to play tomorrow.

We look forward to learning more from you, sharing ideas and then playing our role as the RCMP Heritage Centre to learn and to help celebrate and properly commemorate their people and their actions. Although we're focused on the RCMP as an entity, we could play an important role to share the broader stories of our veterans of all forces, as we're located in Regina and therefore can be an easier reach to the western audiences and the students and the adults of our western provinces.

We are in the process now of transitioning to become a national museum and I look forward to a day, and future conversations, with my colleagues from the other national museums on the calls today. I see the stories they tell each and every day that are of great interest to our audiences as well, and our shared exhibit options will not only improve the communications, but improve the commemoration and recognize much more broadly than we have been able to the great things that our citizens have done before us.

In 2023, the RCMP will be celebrating their 150th anniversary. As we proceed as a national force to have our national museum put in place and the celebration activities for that 150th anniversary recognized and implemented, there's a great opportunity for us to involve the conversations that you're embarking on today to be part of that. We need to pay respect to those who have fallen and those who have served and to make sure that our young people, and people of all ages, and newcomers to this country don't forget, and that we make sure we share those stories with them.

I'm well under five minutes. I hope you appreciate that, and I look forward to any questions or conversations that we will have.

Once again, I thank you for having me.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I absolutely appreciate that, sir. Thank you very much.

Up next we have Ms. Bailey for five minutes, please.

[Caitlin Bailey, Executive Director, The Vimy Foundation]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Members of the committee and my commemoration colleagues, it is my pleasure to be here today with you discussing the future of commemoration in Canada.

The Vimy Foundation has worked tirelessly since 2006 to provide new and meaningful ways for Canadian youth to engage with the memory of the First World War through experience-based learning, classroom resources and scholarships.

The foundation assisted Veterans Affairs with the funding of the opening in 2017 of the visitor education centre at the Canadian National Vimy Memorial and is now the owner and administrator of the Vimy Foundation Centennial Park next to the memorial. We also collaborate with the Hill 70 Memorial, another Canadian-funded property in Loos-en-Gohelle, France.

Dear members of the committee, I would like to begin by thanking Veterans Affairs Canada for its investment of $400,000 over the next three years in our innovative Vimy: A Living Memorial project. Scheduled for launch in April 2022 and conducted in collaboration with several national organizations, this project is entirely digital and designed to bring Vimy and the spirit of Vimy to everyone. We are excited to have the opportunity to work with the European operations team as well as our private and public partners.

Our work, however, is not finished. As most of you know, the Vimy Foundation, with our colleagues of the Hill 70 Memorial, have been speaking to all of you about the urgency to re-examine the way Veterans Affairs supports private sites in Europe. We are pushing for expanded funding criteria within the existing monument renovations program and a direct contribution of $700,000 over five years for our two sites, the Vimy Foundation Centennial Park and the Hill 70 Memorial. Both private sites represent significant Canadian investment by individuals, municipal councils and the provinces in the commemoration of these important First World War moments.

I would also remind the committee that at this time the current 2021-22 budget restricts the funding envelope available to Parks Canada for their heritage sites to Canadian sites only, despite the implication of Parks Canada in the Canadian National Vimy Memorial and other heritage battlefields in Europe.

Although these places are out of sight and out of mind due to their distance, they still represent Canada's public image abroad and retain symbolic value for the people visiting these sites. Both of our organizations are committed to maintaining their respective sites in conditions appropriate to their great importance, and we continue to work proactively with the European operations team.

However, long-term maintenance investments are an increasing challenge. I would therefore like to renew my appeal to the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs and to Veterans Affairs Canada to move forward together with a new 10-year strategic plan.

Commemoration is in many ways a community act. It is the coming together of people to mark a significant event in time, but also to mark many thousands of private events: the family member who did not come home, the neighbour who was injured, the lives changed immeasurably.

The Vimy Foundation continues to be a proud partner of Veterans Affairs to provide opportunities for Canadians, especially young Canadians, to take part in this important act. We are looking forward to shaping the future of commemoration with you and with the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Thank you for your attention.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much. Also, coming in under time is much appreciated.

We are going right into the first round of questions, which starts with MP Brassard.

I will give you a heads-up, John, that I will be needing to likely interrupt you during your questions to ask for unanimous consent to continue.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You won't be interrupting me, you'll be interrupting our witnesses because I'm going to take a minute to ask my question, and I would like all of you to respond in the minute that you will have, because we only have six minutes.

First of all, thank you to all of you for being here. There's no question that commemoration is important to all of us. I think the statement was that hopefully, a government doesn't come in and want this not to be done anymore. I can assure you, there is no one on this committee who would ever propose such a thing. We do understand the importance of commemoration for those who served and for the history of our country.

I've spoken to a couple of you already in side meetings that we've had at the Juno Beach Centre. By the way, Derron Bain and Joel Watson are strong advocates for the centre, as you know, Don.

Caitlin, we've spoken as well. We spoke about the short-term challenges that each organization is having as a result of COVID, but there are some medium to long-term financial challenges that are coming up for all of the organizations. We know that VAC has proposed $44.9 million in spending in the commemoration programming in 2021-22. We haven't seen a financial plan yet, unless I'm missing something, for the actual strategic plan.

This question is for all of you. If you were us, recommending to the government how to spend money on commemoration, where would you want it to go?

I'll start with Caitlin. You only have a minute.

[Caitlin Bailey]

Thank you, John. I appreciate it.

Speaking for us, I think the importance of long-term investments in partners is fairly top of mind. We're all working together to try to achieve commemoration. We're all exterior partner organizations that help VAC do the work that needs to be done. Commitments that are over two years, three years, five years for all of us would help us to plan better and would help us be able to better adapt to the situations that we find ourselves in.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thanks, Caitlin.

Don.

[Don Cooper]

If I stand back from it, I don't know what the needs are of all the other organizations. We just look at our needs and where we're going.

We're very much a growth-oriented private business, if you will. We've had tremendous success, and 2019 was our biggest year ever with over 100,000 visitors. We've responded to the look forward by saying that we're going to have to make about a $5-million investment in expanding the Juno Beach Centre and changing things around.

We're hoping that the financial anchor on all of that actually comes out of France and out of the sustainable development activities that we're doing. We're not looking to Veterans Affairs in any major way, but it would be nice to have them participate with the French and with us in terms of expanding the Juno Beach Centre and dealing with our needs as we go forward. We do anticipate a growing museum once this COVID business is behind us.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thanks.

Steve.

[Steve McLellan]

The first thing I would suggest is to make sure that we don't lose anything in terms of the physical presence that we have overseas or in Canada, and that's critical because once we lose that...the Vimy centre, for example.

Second, put monies and efforts through the organizations to fund the communications in a manner that the people who we're trying to attract and educate are listening. That would use social media perhaps much more than we have collectively done in the past.

Third, I would encourage you to help incentivize, or encourage, at least, private sector involvement in the kinds of things that we're speaking of today. I think there's a great demand for that and also a responsibility of the corporate community to stand tall and pay their respects, if you will, through these commemoration activities.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you.

Perhaps somebody else on my team can address the private sector challenges that exist currently as well because of COVID.

Next is Caroline.

[Caroline Dromaguet]

I would come at it from the public institution that we are, focusing on that public history and that preservation and education. I think we would benefit from encouraging the recording of these stories and these experiences of veterans so that their stories are not forgotten. I think that many of our efforts during the planning for the 75th anniversary of the end of the Second World War made us realize how few veterans are left. It's very important to preserve their stories, their objects and their experiences so that we can educate future generations on their experiences.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you.

I know we have a compassionate chair who is going to allow David some time to respond to that question as well.

Thank you.

[David Loveridge]

Thank you very much.

I think I'm going to take an angle from the perspective that we have a clear responsibility to maintain 1.7 million memorials or commemorations around the world. Many of those commemorations are over 100 years old now. This involves maintaining not only the graves and the grave markers, but all of the memorials that were built in places such as Thiepval and the Menin Gate, or the India Gate in India.

They're large resources. They're large in scope and large in size. I think our obligation should be to maintain what we have, make sure that we do our veterans proud and that we properly commemorate them going forward. That's an investment that's in perpetuity, from our perspective, and I think it's important going forward.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, everyone.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

That is your time as well. The bells are ringing, so we timed this very well, folks.

I need to ask for unanimous consent to continue. What I would like to suggest is that we go until the bells are down to 10 minutes.

Does anybody object to that?

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

We do not on our side, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'm seeing no objection.

I will continue.