Evidence of meeting #22 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was museum.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
That's perfect. Thank you so much.
I leave it to you, Mr. Chair.
5 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you, and just to clarify for anybody listening, I didn't actually give anybody a finger.
Up next we have MP Wagantall, please.
April 28th, 2021 / 5 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Thank you, Chair.
I appreciate all of you being here. With the little bit of experience I've had going overseas and visiting those sites on a trip as a member of Parliament, believe me, it's something I wish every Canadian could do.
All of my grandkids have been to the museum in Ottawa. We have a lot to be very proud of.
I want to ask some questions of Steve McLellan, who is the chair of the group back home in Saskatchewan working on the museum status for our RCMP Heritage Centre.
As you know, Steve, in his mandate letter from the Prime Minister, the minister has been tasked with making sure that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Heritage Centre is a national museum. I know that's our priority and certainly a very valid one. I'm very excited to see this happen.
However, I also want to bring up the fact that this is a 10-year plan that we're looking at to improve commemoration across Canada. The vision is to have Canadians understand and appreciate those in uniform, their contributions and sacrifices, and to have all veterans and family members feel recognized.
They indicate here that it would be a broader approach to expand the focus of VAC's commemorative programming without removing the traditional focus on World War II and Korean War veterans. VAC wants to increase awareness of other international operations in which the Canadian Armed Forces and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have served and participated.
Of course, we have to recognize, and sometimes we even forget here within this [Technical difficulty—Editor] we have a responsibility to the RCMP as well. We travelled across Canada in the last government, right from Nova Scotia to British Columbia, up to Yellowknife and to Beauval, in northern Saskatchewan, where we met with Métis and indigenous individuals. We visited with serving and veteran RCMP members, who take on incredible challenges.
I wonder what your perspective would be if, as part of that museum, you could see commemoration of our veterans. Do you have an idea of what you think that could or should look like?
5 p.m.
Board Chair, RCMP Heritage Centre
It's an important question, and as I indicated earlier, your task is critical. I would reiterate, as I and others have said, how important it is that our national brand and our care of remembrance globally be recognized and financed to the extent that we can and that we need to. I would say that we need to, because I know that we can.
As it relates to how to do it, the world has changed in so many ways recently. That's important for us to lament in some ways, of course, but it's also for us to learn the lessons.
For example, you can see our ability today to meet virtually. All of us didn't have to sit on airplanes; we didn't have to take two or three days to do this and it's a very effective way to communicate. Let's think about ways we can do that to share the stories of those people who maybe, certainly if they're Second World War or First World War vets, or Korean vets, are not able to go to Ottawa to share their story. They're not able to go to Remembrance Day services, maybe even in their own town, but they could perhaps sit in front of a camera and do these sorts of things.
To the agencies that are here that are already digitizing those stories, I give you full credit.
I'll reiterate that point of the stories. The reason I think we commemorate is not just the collective great work that these people did; it's how much they gave up to do it. Many of us have lamented the fact that, woe are we, we have to stay inside for six months or a year and we haven't seen our family or our children. Imagine those young men, and women too, who didn't see their families for four or five years. Let's tell those stories about their experiences.
Sometimes when our young people, and we ourselves, are shown that experience in movies, they don't really show the trenches. They do not show the difficult days. They show the celebratory times in a French bistro or something like that. I think we need to be able to say, “Let's hear from these people.”
Another thing that's similar across all forces, the RCMP who serve in peacekeeping roles and North-West Mounted Police who served in roles overseas with different wars, is that they don't often come back and speak of it broadly and freely. Let's provide a space safe for them to do that so that we capture, in their words, and to the approval that they'll give us, their stories and their experiences.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
I'm sorry. Thank you.
I just have one more question in relation to that, because—
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
No, not at all. That was excellent. Thank you so much.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, Chair.
I thank all five of you for your presentations today and the role you play in helping recognize our men and women who serve. It's so important.
I'll focus my question on two groups, Caroline and David, because I want to talk about modern-day veterans, if we're recognizing them and to what extent, and how we can do better.
Of course, March 31 was the seventh anniversary of the end of the Afghanistan war, and there are modern-day veterans who feel that their dates are not on the cenotaphs, from 2001 to 2014, and the role that Canada played in peace and the service of peace. Some of them are quite frustrated.
A constituent of mine, retired Chief Warrant Officer Robert Thompson, has been the champion of this issue for a number of years now. By his count, about 7,500 cenotaphs across the country are failing to recognize the Afghan vets.
Are we recognizing them in some way, shape or form now in your institutions? If so, how are we doing it and how can we do it better as we move forward?
Let's start with Caroline.
5:05 p.m.
Director General, Canadian War Museum
Thank you, Mr. Samson.
It is a very important question. You're quite right.
Again, if I come to this from a public institution point of view, if I start from a collecting point of view, it's a bit of a challenge for us because we want to be able to collect these stories, but these veterans still are in possession of these objects and they're not quite ready to let them go. However, we have other ways to record their stories.
Of course, modern-day veterans are among the individuals we hope to interview and whose stories we hope to record. That's how we're recognizing those stories.
Also, as I was mentioning in my opening statement, in 2017 we updated our permanent galleries to tell the story from the cold war to Afghanistan. That was a very important project for us because we were able to give a voice to these, as we would call them, modern-day veterans, so we have some very poignant and relevant stories.
You're right. It's so important to tell because it's in our living memory. We're maybe a bit used to commemorating events that happened 75 or 100 years ago, but these are conflicts that most of us still remember, so it's very important to tell.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, Caroline.
Maybe I can have David chime in, and then I have another quick question.
Go ahead, David.
5:10 p.m.
Director, Canada and Americas Area, Commonwealth War Graves Commission
I'll be really quick.
For the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, as I stated in my opening statement, our mandate is very clear. It's the First World War and the Second World War, and even within those two periods it's very specific. Even if veterans who came back from the First World War, for example, died outside our mandate period, we don't take care of them as the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. They're cared for by Veterans Affairs Canada.
So it's difficult for us, because we honour all of our veterans. We want to do that, but even, for example, at Beechwood there isn't a separate section for the Afghan veterans.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, David. We're looking at how we could do it, however, so maybe that will be an addition.
That being said, I'll come back to you, Caroline.
How can we apply an Afghan veterans lens to what we do from now on in commemorating?
5:10 p.m.
Director General, Canadian War Museum
I think it's a case of making their story relevant to people today and speaking to their experience. In my view, it's important for people to connect with what these veterans have experienced. We're talking about making sure that the contribution of Canada on the international level is known. I think that's very important.
Just to finish that off, we are getting a lot of feedback from educators across the country who really want us to integrate these very modern stories and experiences into the tools we provide to teachers. It's a matter of engaging these veterans in telling those stories. It can be a challenge. Not everybody wants to talk about it.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you.
My time is probably running out, but David—
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
—just with your expertise, how easy would it be to put those dates on the cenotaphs, the 7,500, that aren't on them now?
5:10 p.m.
Director, Canada and Americas Area, Commonwealth War Graves Commission
From a pure physical ability, it would be easy. From a political perspective, it may be not so easy.
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Liberal
5:10 p.m.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
We recently learned that Veterans Affairs Canada has set aside approximately $45 billion for 2021-22 for commemoration activities. I have difficulty knowing whether this amount is adequate, too much, or not enough. I have little knowledge of the scope of anything related to commemoration activities.
Mr. McLellan, as a central agency in this area, do you think that Veterans Affairs Canada is providing appropriate funding for commemoration activities?
5:10 p.m.
Board Chair, RCMP Heritage Centre
Those are both very good questions, and thank you.
I can guarantee this. There will be many people who say that $44 million is too much and many others who will say it's not enough. Such is your world of politics.
I would suggest that if you give enough time for people to ramp up, it will do a nice job.
My day job is with a chamber of commerce, and I know that the private sector honours the people you're representing in this discussion today. They will step forward. If you need them to do that, then let's bring them to the table.
On the second point, concerning Veterans Affairs, my responsibilities with the heritage centre have not—I'll be honest—been integrated heavily with Veterans Affairs, so I couldn't speak to that. I would, however, look forward to more conversations on this in the future.