Evidence of meeting #23 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was legion.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Rick Christopher  Assistant Deputy Minister, Strategic Policy and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs
Paul Thomson  Director General, Commemoration Division, Department of Veterans Affairs
Colonel  Retired) Michael Pearson (Director, Commemorations Operations, Department of Veterans Affairs
Steven Clark  National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Benoit Jolicoeur

5 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

We have a very positive and open relationship with Veterans Affairs. We haven't gone down the route, except for this past year, of requesting any kind of government funding through the department, because we want to maintain that impartiality and that separation. This was an extraordinary year, so we had to make that extraordinary choice.

Going forward, we won't be looking for funding, hopefully, but we will maintain a great positive working relationship because we are all collaborating on the same goals.

5 p.m.

Conservative

Scot Davidson Conservative York—Simcoe, ON

We are always collaborating on the same goals, and if we have to do more bottle drives, I know small towns like my community will always pull together for the Legion.

Thank you, Mr. Clark. I appreciate that.

5 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

It's my pleasure.

5 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you, MP Davidson.

Up next we have MP Amos, for five minutes, please.

5 p.m.

Liberal

William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to the witnesses.

I have two questions.

The first one is related to the service of our Canadian military. I'm thinking of recent events in my riding of Pontiac. On two occasions, in 2017 and 2019, they provided major services to us during the floods. It was a little surprising to see tanks on highway 148, but that was the reality. I am sure the communities in the Pontiac, which I represent, would want to find a way to commemorate those moments and, in particular, the services rendered by the Canadian Armed Forces during the floods.

Has the desire to celebrate Canada's efforts in times of crisis and natural disaster been expressed during your consultations on commemorations?

5 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

There hasn't been anything on a national scale, but a number of branches locally recognize those members of the military community who have provided assistance or extraordinary assistance. That's something we encourage our branches to do.

Interestingly, our branches are autonomous, so although Dominion Command provides policy and procedure direction, we don't actually direct the branches. We can certainly encourage and recommend, but it's up to the individual branches what they want to do. Something like this is absolutely essential to recognize what the community is doing for everyone else in the community. It's one of the three pillars of our mission.

5 p.m.

Liberal

William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC

Okay, Mr. Clark, so there is openness to that, and an interest and an appetite. It's a question, then, of finding the proper mechanism and engaging the community to help bring that alive.

5 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

Absolutely. How will the branch provide that proper recognition, or the recognition to those individuals and organizations?

Both the provincial level and the national level can provide assistance and guidance and recommendations, and it's something that is so important to do because the Legion serves the community and there are others who are serving the community; we need to recognize that.

May 3rd, 2021 / 5 p.m.

Liberal

William Amos Liberal Pontiac, QC

Thank you for that response.

My second question is off in a bit of a different direction, but you'll understand that the riding of Pontiac is home to many hundreds of creators and artists—people who create culture for a living. It's an important part of our region's economy.

I wonder the extent to which you feel it's important to engage with Canada's creative community in delivering commemoration and in reconceiving commemoration? This is a question I'm going to want to pose to our public servants as well, but I think it's worthwhile engaging at the level of the Legion, if only to know what kinds of interactions you've had in the past with distinct sectors of Canada's creative community, the arts community, in the reconceiving of commemoration.

5:05 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

Absolutely. It is so important that we engage every community, and here I'm talking about groups of people as opposed to a municipality, in what the Legion does in remembrance.

We have engaged probably about 10 different aboriginal artisans who are involved in making poppies for our distribution, whether they be sealskin or sweetgrass or beaded. This is an absolutely wonderful way in which we can expand the remembrance message and draw in those artisans. Similarly, we have reached out to artisans who are very skilled at doing things with metalwork so that we can engage them as well in sharing the importance of the remembrance message and also promote that community.

There is a theatre company that we have been in discussion with on Projet Monarques. They are going across the country doing workshops with individuals who have been affected by PTSD or an OSI. They are gathering their thoughts and words and they will be putting them into a theatrical production.

These are simply examples of other ways in which we can reach as many people as possible by, again, weaving into those existing behaviours.

5:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much, sir.

Up next is MP Doherty for five minutes.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Mr. Clark, for your testimony.

As our chair was smiling and talking about Fortnite, I was texting my son. He's in the game design business, and so are his friends. I was asking if they developed that or if they took part in that, because one of his friends actually worked on Fortnite, so I was very proud, actually, as you were mentioning that. I did not know that about it, although I know that a ton of work goes on in terms of remembrance.

In my short period of time here, I want to speak about a couple of things. I am a grandson of two World War II veterans. Neither of them spoke of their service, because it was too traumatic. Only a handful of years ago, almost 15 years after he passed, I learned of one grandfather's participation in the “devil's brigade”. He was one of the very first special forces members and taught small-arms combat.

Mr. Clark, the work you do is so important. Was the Legion included in any funding in this most recent budget?

5:05 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

The Legion itself was not, but we were very pleased with the funding of other initiatives, such as additional funding for mental health, for military sexual trauma and for a number of initiatives to combat veterans' homelessness. It won't assist the individual Legion branch itself, but it very much assists with the work the Legion does.

5:05 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

I appreciate that. That is exactly the road I was going down. As you may know, I am a tireless champion in terms of mental health and those who serve our country and our communities.

There is a program that the Legion has—the Veterans Transition Network—whereby you work tirelessly to support those who are struggling silently and suffering silently. I'm wondering if there is an opportunity for the Legion to apply for further funding for that program. As you said earlier, only 6% are open currently, and 77% of your doors are closed. That is a tremendous void in our network, because the Legion serves just so many people and provides those services.

I would like your comments on that.

5:05 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

We have not as an organization applied for funding for that specific purpose. Early on, at the outset of the Veterans Transition Network, we were very supportive financially. We donated half a million dollars to get that program under way, because we recognized the value in it. Since then, our British Columbia/Yukon command has donated another million dollars to that program. This comes from poppy funds.

We have not gone out as an organization to solicit additional funds, but we provide support and endorsement of these programs whenever asked by those specific entities.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Clark, are you familiar with the movement to bring “988”, a simple, three-digit national suicide prevention hotline number, to Canada?

5:10 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

I'm sorry. I am not aware.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

It's very similar to 911 or 411: a simple, three-digit number, but geared around removing that barrier when those who are struggling actually want to reach out.

Do you feel that removing any barrier to mental health is important, and is 988 is something you believe would be beneficial?

5:10 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

Absolutely. We have to remove that stigma.

Three years ago, in 2018, the Legion named Mrs. Anita Cenerini as the National Silver Cross Mother. She was the mother of Private Thomas Welch, the first soldier from Afghanistan to die by suicide. We have to bring this discussion out to open conversation, and this is one way we can do it. There are others, and 988 would be a tremendous step forward.

5:10 p.m.

Conservative

Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC

Mr. Clark, I thank you and the 248,000 members of our Legion, all your volunteers, who do 600,000 hours or more, millions of hours, of service every year. I'm a member of branch 43 here in Prince George. We have branch 139 and branch 94 also in my region, and I can't say enough how appreciative I am of the work that you do and of the veterans in our region as well.

5:10 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

Many thanks to you.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Bryan May

Thank you very much.

Up next for five minutes is MP Fillmore, please.

5:10 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS

Thank you, Chair.

Mr. Clark, thank you so much. As the sole witness for an hour, with 12 MPs firing rapid questions at you, you're doing remarkably well. Thank you for your lucidity, and moreover, for your incredible work.

At one point in your testimony you raised the alarm that if we don't have Legions and branches, where are we?

I see the work of the Legions in Halifax: the Spryfield Legion, the Vimy Legion and the White Ensign Legion. The Vimy Legion provides the colour guard for our main Remembrance Day events. The Spryfield Legion has become a living room for the community there. The programs that support veterans are so important, with the extended family and all the benefits that brings. However, the Legions also facilitate remembrance, don't they? They carry the stories forward, whether it's in an oral tradition or with the stories of what's on the wall of the Legions, or whether it is turning up to be the colour guard at important events.

We're seeing the membership numbers fall. I'm thinking particularly of the White Ensign Legion. They were trying everything, having barbeque nights and bringing in different kinds of music, trying to recruit younger members to keep the good work going. They were having a very difficult time with that. That's not my real question.

If you have any secrets for us on how we can increase youth membership in our local Legions, I would love to hear that from you, or how we can help, if there was a program that VAC could undertake that could help in some way.

If you have an answer to that, that's great, but I really want to talk to you about physical memorials. For example, at the Spryfield Legion, there is a granite memorial. I don't know the story of who paid for it or how it's maintained, but there are a number of memorials around Halifax, as there are in towns and cities across the country, that have cropped up organically.

Famously, in Halifax, as I mentioned at our last meeting of the committee, there is the HMCS Bonaventure anchor. A very plucky crew of survivors of the HMCS Kootenay disaster had it renovated for the 75th anniversary of Kootenay, but it was very unclear about whose responsibility it was and who had to pay for it. In the end, it all worked out, but it wasn't clear.

I wonder whether there is any insight you might give us on how we can better care for those smaller memorials. The glamorous ones are in the news on Remembrance Day, but I'm asking about those smaller community monuments.

Thank you.

5:15 p.m.

National Executive Director, The Royal Canadian Legion

Steven Clark

I know that a number of years ago there was a national repository of memorials across the country that was gathering pictures and information so that people would know where they were and who was maintaining them or had the responsibility for it. I do not know the state of play for that repository, or whether it is still valid or updated.

With regard to community memorials, they could be Legion owned or non-Legion owned, but regardless of whether they are or not, if there is a local Legion branch, they are able to financially support the maintenance of those memorials should they fall into a state of disrepair or need things done. It's very important that we do that, so whether or not there's ownership, the Legion stands ready to assist if required.

Perhaps I could just quickly go back to your original comment about how you draw younger people in. It's a challenge. I look at the innovative ways in which some branches have done this.

For example, the Legion branch from Fredericton turned one of their meeting rooms into a gaming centre. They filled it with Xboxes and large-screen TVs, and being a community close to CFB Gagetown, it drew in those individuals, so they were able to learn what the Legion can do for them. Whether they are Legion members or not doesn't really matter, as long as they know that the Legion is there when they do need the Legion.

5:15 p.m.

Liberal

Andy Fillmore Liberal Halifax, NS

Thank you, Mr. Clark.

I will let it go there and pass my remaining time forward.