Evidence of meeting #4 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was chair.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK
Okay, great. Thank you.
I'll maybe ask you this as well. As you know, in May, we had previous ombudsman Dalton's 2020 report, “Financial Compensation for Canadian Veterans: A Comparative Analysis of Benefit Regimes”. I know that you have a breadth of understanding across this transition from CAF to VAC that needs to take place. Do you see as well that we could take really historic steps to modernize the way we're taking care of our veterans, all veterans, from the same perspective?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
You only have about 10 seconds, but I'll give you an opportunity to answer that question, please.
As an Individual
Yes, Mrs. Wagantall. To answer your question, without a doubt we have the ability. I believe the parts of the system are in place where we need them. We just need to get them connected in the right order. We're doing this backwards. I think it is possible, yes.
Liberal
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I want to thank all the witnesses here today. It's extremely important to help us in this very important task of dealing with the backlog as efficiently and effectively as possible. I want to thank all of you for your contribution today.
I'd like to start with my colleague Mr. Giroux.
Thank you to you and your staff for the excellent work you do. It is another very important piece that is required to help us through this. As you well know, and as many of our listeners know, we have seen an increase of 60% in applications over the last year, and a 90% increase in first-time applicants. This is a big factor, as you said in your presentation; it's increasing the demands because of the added benefits that have been increased. Between 2015 and 2016, we were receiving 45,000 applications. We are now receiving 63,000. That's an increase of 18,000. In the decision-making by Veterans Affairs, where in 2015 it was 42,000, we're now up to 57,000, which is a 15,000 increase. That's a very important piece that we don't talk about enough, I believe.
The department has put forward a plan. You made your report, as you indicated earlier. I believe your report focuses mostly on people and capacity, but the plan brings other pillars that are crucial. One of the pillars they brought forward is digitization. That, I believe, can increase our efficiency. The other one is the integration of teams and innovative hubs. Those are strategies that are in the report, which your report doesn't take into account, even in terms of the innovation processes.
I'd like you to speak about those pillars and share with us how those can help move that backlog. As our colleague Mr. Walbourne said, it's not only about people; it's also about other processes we could put in place that would help us achieve our goal, which is to eliminate the backlog.
Thank you.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Our report takes into consideration issues or improvements to processes that were known to us as of the end of March. It includes digitization. It also includes a couple of other improvements that were known to us at the time of the information request, such as clusters and so on. It does not include policy changes. For example, automatic approvals of certain types of disability applications are not taken into account, but improvements in processes such as digitization are included in the report. They are factored into the necessary investments to reduce the backlog or eliminate it in 12 months. These are all in there. However, we did not factor in policy decisions that were not made or were not known to us at the time of drafting this report, which would have significant impacts on reducing the backlog.
We did a sensitivity analysis at the end of the report to show what an improvement in productivity or a decrease in productivity would do to the backlog and how it would behave should, for example, employees become more productive for whatever reason, such as further improvements to the process and so on. It's for illustrative purposes, in case parliamentarians like you want to make further assumptions or ask questions of the department with respect to the impact of productivity improvements.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Without those added policy changes, we've seen a drop from 23,000, I think, to 19,000 now. With these policy changes and strategies in the plan, we will see as well major improvements. We also need to keep in mind the people we're adding, which is 168 plus the 350, who will in effect be at work and ready to do the adjudication in January. We should see some major improvement in that area as well, wouldn't you think?
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
With the additional resources in June 2020, we expect the backlog to be reduced by about 10,000 applications, compared to the current situation, by March 2022, so this is an improvement in the backlog.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
That is only with your report, which does not take in the necessary policy changes.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
Exactly.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Therefore, there will be many more than 10,000.
Parliamentary Budget Officer, Office of the Parliamentary Budget Officer
If there were additional policy changes to the way the applications are treated, yes.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
There are some you are now aware of that you were not aware of at the report stage.
Liberal
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question is for Mr. Coakeley.
In your opening statement, you talked about the importance of a systemic approach to address the issues that led to the backlog. The automatic approval of disability benefit claims is an idea that has gained popularity among members, as evidenced today and at the last meeting. It is a recommendation we made that is now catching on.
What are the benefits and drawbacks, in your view, of automatically approving disability benefit claims? We want to fully understand what the process would entail.
Chief Executive Officer, National Association of Federal Retirees
Thank you, Mr. Desilets.
As a matter of principle, we are in favour of a process to automatically approve benefit claims, which would certainly have advantages, but also drawbacks. Keep in mind that the first goal is to help veterans reintegrate into civilian life, so every effort must be made to make that transition easier. It is about more than just clearing the backlog.
In the nineties, I was head of the bureau of pensions advocates at Veterans Affairs Canada. The backlog was pretty sizable back then. In my experience, many cases are similar. For instance, a lot of veterans may have hearing problems from exposure to high noise levels. In the course of a military mission, they can certainly be exposed to explosions, engine noise and so on.
We think it's important to take a step back and determine whether the impairment is likely attributable to service. Consider soldiers who jump out of aircraft or tanks and who go on to have knee problems. What would be worse is to grant the disability pension and, then, reverse the decision. That would involve Veterans Affairs Canada taking back the money it had paid out, so that is an important consideration.
With all due respect for veterans, we recommend that the department carry out pilot projects on a given disability. Another option would be to grant a pension benefit immediately on the basis of the facts and to carry out a pilot project on the increases afterwards. That would reduce the risk that the department would have to recover money that had already gone out to veterans.
I'm not sure whether that answers your question.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
It does, but I have follow-up questions.
Would you support the automatic approval of claims, but on a partial basis? In other words, could it be done gradually? Let's go back to the example of the veteran who jumped from an aircraft during a mission; let's say there is a 95% likelihood that they will have knee or back issues. Should the department grant the veteran 50% of the benefit amount, and then, wait a year, two years or five years to pay out the rest?
Chief Executive Officer, National Association of Federal Retirees
In the nineties, when I was at Veterans Affairs Canada, that was more or less the practice. Veterans were granted disability pensions according to the extent of their impairment expressed as a percentage. The department also determined the extent to which the impairment was attributable to military service. The department could determine, for instance, that the veteran had a 50% impairment, but that 20% of the impairment was attributable to military service.
I've been away from Veterans Affairs Canada for 20 years now. A system like that would provide veterans with an immediate pension, and thereby give them access to treatments and services such as the veterans independence program, which the minister mentioned in his statement. Veterans could access those services from the outset. In civil law, there is such a thing as commencement of proof in writing, so yes, it would be possible.
Bloc
Luc Desilets Bloc Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC
Thank you.
I have a minute left. I would very much appreciate hearing from Mr. Scott.
First, I want you to know that I was deeply moved by your story. The committee always appreciates hearing from people who came up against barriers when navigating the system. Where do you stand on the automatic approval of claims? Would it have helped in your case?
As an Individual
Automatic approval, yes...because I had documented evidence dating back to 2009. However, I just want to point out that hiring new people will not necessarily help if you're not changing the processes, which is what we're talking about.
If you want to talk about a pilot project, I would ask the committee and the government to consider piloting what's going to happen to the backlog when you have so many mefloquine veterans submitting claims for their injuries. Yes, I think the streamlined version, as was previously talked about, similar to CRA, would help.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
Thank you very much.
We are now going to move to MP Blaney, for six minutes.