Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 25th, 2020

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to go back to the Army, Navy and Air Force Veterans in Canada. When we had the Legion in the other day, Dominion Command, they were talking about the challenges. I think you touched on this being a mostly volunteer-based organization. One of the other challenges that came up was the inability of the army, navy and air force vets to access government programs, because in some cases they had not filed the proper taxes, the T2s, which are for charitable taxes.

I'm just wondering, have you heard or experienced any of that across the country with some of the branches?

[Deanna Fimrite]

Yes. Certainly, very similar to the Royal Canadian Legion, our units are based on a charter that we provide them and we are incorporated federally. In some different provinces they may be part of their provincial societies or what have you. Really, when they ask, “What is your incorporation number?”, we have only one. That is the one that is owned by the Dominion Command.

There certainly have been struggles. I haven't heard of this particular T2 issue, but I have heard of other units that struggled when applying for the wage subsidy programs and just trying to get online. Even at my national office, trying to get on my CRA account is difficult for us. I certainly understand those issues.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you for that.

Mr. Booth, True Patriot Love is a tremendous organization doing tremendous work. We heard from VETS Canada the other day, about the gap from March until the funding was announced and the difficulties in that organization and their ability to provide services to their veterans. They talked about having to lay off staff members, and a general diminishment in their ability to provide services to veterans.

Can you speak of your experience with that and how the $1.5 million that has been allocated to the TPL foundation will be utilized going forward?

[Nick Booth]

As many veterans organizations struggled in those first months, as I mentioned in my testimony, we were eligible to receive some benefit from the wage subsidy and the rent subsidy. I would certainly commend the government for making not-for-profit organizations able to apply for that. That allowed us to keep our staff on and not furlough and or make them redundant, which in turn not only helped the wider economy but also allowed us to continue our work. However as I mentioned, our revenue is already down 52% year on year.

To your question, the $1.5 million will give us certainty during the coming months. We know in the veterans sector—I'm sure the other witnesses would agree—that the month of November is the one time of year when people really think about veterans. We typically get 40% of our money in about a five-week period. The $1.5 million will hopefully allow us to get through the remaining months until the economic conditions improve.

As a point of clarification on something that came up much earlier in a question for Ms. Fimrite, the conditions around the VOESF grant do not allow onward granting. They're only for operational relief for your own organizations. Other organizations would not be allowed to bid for that money. It's to allow the recipients themselves to maintain their work during the coming months.

It would certainly allow us to keep our staff during the winter to make sure that we can push and hopefully maintain our work as we emerge.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

If we continue down the same path of the pandemic and these programs and their associated monies were to stop, what impact would that have on your ability to function?

[Nick Booth]

Most certainly we would be faced with laying off staff and potentially not being able to pay our rent, which would put us in legal jeopardy with our landlord. We have a lease without break, so if we're unable to pay that, we would certainly be facing some form of very difficult conversations and/or litigation. The programs have given us the ability to navigate that. As I mentioned in my testimony, just before the start of November, we fell down to 4.2 months of forward operating reserve, which means that we wouldn't exist by Easter. Having been a ten-year organization, Canada's largest national foundation for the military, to go out of business by the spring would certainly be a significant consequence for the veterans we serve.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, everyone, for taking the time to be with us today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

For five minutes, we have MP Lalonde.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

First, I want to say thank you to all of you for taking time from your very busy lives and being with us for this very important study.

Mr. Gaboriault, it was really a pleasure to meet you and listen to your story. Thank you for sharing it with us today. I know you're going to have to leave us to pick up your children, but I wanted to at least thank you for your years of service, sir.

[Max Gaboriault]

Thank you.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I'm not sure if if the committee knows, but I just want to note that today is the first day of Canada's 16 days of activism against gender-based violence.

With that in mind, I want to ask Mr. Booth—and I know you made some reference to some of the hardships you're encountering as a foundation—about the financial health of any of your programs to help the military men and women who have been affected by sexual violence during their service.

[Nick Booth]

Thank you, Madam. It's a very good question.

We do actually maintain a dedicated fund for women veterans. It's called the Captain Nichola Goddard fund.

As members may know, Captain Goddard was the first woman killed in the Canadian Armed Forces, in Afghanistan. In her honour, we've worked with the Goddard family over the last two to three years to build a dedicated program for women, both veterans and those still serving.

We certainly do provide support for those who've suffered sexual violence whilst in the military, and we have funded some women-only mental health community programs through some of our partners. Through the Veterans Transition Network, for example, we funded very specific, dedicated women's programming.

If there are women, or indeed men, who suffered from sexual violence during their service, we would certainly be very keen to ensure that they receive the services. I think the 16 Days of Activism to make sure that what has remained a relatively taboo subject, despite the chief of the defence staff's commitment to raising it.... I think women are a priority for the Canadian Armed Forces, and I would commend them for that. However, through the Goddard fund, we're very committed to making sure that women, both those serving and veterans, receive all the help they can get as they move on from experiences they may have suffered.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much for that. I appreciate that reply.

Mr. Gimblett, I was very taken by the fact that 95% of your members are seniors. Before I entered politics I worked with seniors in a retirement home where I had the great privilege of meeting our veterans, men and women and also some spouses of our military.

I have a question, and it's just a clarification for me because I know you made reference to aspects of payroll not meeting certain criteria, and CEBA. In my view and my mind, they're two different programs.

CEBA, I understand, is a loan that you would need apply for through your financial institution. Is that what you were referring to?

[Mike Gimblett]

Yes, because our payroll is so low, we don't meet the minimum requirement.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

The requirement of $20,000?

[Mike Gimblett]

Yes, because so much of our work is done by volunteers.

We do have an HST number. If we could access CEBA just through the fact that we have an HST number and are an actual business—

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Okay.

[Mike Gimblett]

And we report.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

I know we're all talking about COVID right now. Based on what you just made reference to and the large volunteer-based approach, what's the plan for next year for you in terms of survival?

[Mike Gimblett]

We're going to continue with our.... At the start of COVID, we came up with doing a take-out meal every two weeks. That serves our members, and we've also expanded out into the community. This weekend coming up we have 100 meals booked already.

We're hustling in any way we can, and there are very limited ways that we can raise funds right now. We can't have rentals. We can't have people at our mess hall. This is the only way we can do it. We've come up with new, innovative ways.

We carried our expenses through the summer, but now with the heating season, things are looking a lot more dire. A lot of our members have made some very significant donations to help us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

Thank you for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Next is MP Desilets, for two and a half minutes please.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I have a quick question: if we could return to a nearly normal life on February 1, would your organizations be able to survive?

[Mike Gimblett]

We most definitely would, and we'd be in a position to support all of the groups and programs that we normally had, and probably even increase our revenues again over last year's.