Veterans Affairs Committee on Sept. 23rd, 2024

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

That's unfortunate.

Thank you for that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Richards.

Now let's go for six minutes to Mr. Randeep Sarai.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Sergeant Usherwood, I want to welcome you back to the committee. I know members of this committee very much appreciate the testimony you've provided over the years on a wide range of topics. It's worth mentioning, in particular, our most recent study, which produced the report “Invisible No More”.

On the topic of our most recent report—before I get to my questions—I'd like to ask whether you've had a chance to review the “Invisible No More” report and could share with our committee any initial observations.

What are your thoughts on the recommendations, and what do you hope to see come out of that work?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I read the executive summary, but I have not had time yet to read the whole report front to back. I intend to, but I've been extremely busy this summer since it came out. I don't have any comments on it.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

That's fair enough.

During last week's meeting, we heard some powerful testimony from Kevin “Sammy” Sampson, vice-president of the Rwanda Veterans Association of Canada, regarding this report. He talked about how there is always a degree of unpredictability while serving and how circumstances can change the goal of a mission overnight because of what is being faced in real time.

Would you agree with that assessment, and would you be comfortable sharing your own perspective on that?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I agree it is a matter of improvisation. Frankly, that's what the Canadian military is famous for, all the way back to World War I. We were more capable of improvising, for example, than the British army units. I think improvisation is important, but part of being prepared to improvise is anticipating the potential deployment. I feel that the CAF, like I said, never anticipated that we were going to fight anything but the Soviets in Germany. I think that's reflected in the policy.

I will say that, during my career—it ended in 2022—I could see more clearly that the military took lessons from the Gulf War on not being prepared. Some of these were, for example, implemented during Operation Impact. I have forgotten what the one was in Libya.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

When it comes to the topic of this study, I'm curious to hear how much awareness you think there is among CAF members, veterans and the general population about the different classifications we're studying today.

Is it a special measure? Is it a war? How many folks do you think are aware of these classifications, especially those in the forces versus veterans, and finally the general public?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I would say that all people in the military, within a few years, become well aware of the difference between a war veteran and a special duty area veteran, and what the implications of that are.

We are all in the military. I don't know. Maybe if you went far enough back among veterans.... Any veteran, other than maybe World War II or Korea veterans, would be aware of that, because they were all engaged in operations and sometimes fought wars, saw their peers killed beside them and were not treated like a veteran who had been in a war.

For example, in Cyprus in 1974, with the invasion by the Turkish army, the airborne regiment at the time fought to maintain their position on the United Nations lines. Some of them died. I think everybody in the military is very aware of that.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

You're saying that those in the military, after a few years of service, are well aware of it. Obviously, as veterans, they're more aware of it. What about the general population? Are they aware of these classifications?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Frankly, the general population is not aware of the military except for what shows up on the national news.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

In your opening statement, you touched a little bit on how you became aware of the definitions, their differences, and what your reaction was. Can you elaborate on how you felt when you found out about the different classifications, based on being in different theatres, and what that means?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

It's more as I got older in the military. I looked back on the service and what it cost me. I became resentful of the fact that there were special duty areas. I was diagnosed with skin cancer, and VAC has accepted that I had skin cancer. It granted my application. Because I was in a special duty area, it did not agree with the rest, but since it accepted my initial application, I'm fine. I will accept that.

However, for me, I'm very conscious of it, especially in the last 10 years.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Sarai.

Mr. Desilets, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, colleagues.

Ms. Usherwood, thank you for being with us. I believe this is your third visit. Thank you for making yourself available once again. Thank you also for your service.

My first question may seem a bit simple: Having taken part in the Gulf War, do you feel aggrieved, compared to your colleagues who took part in the two great wars and the Korean War?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

The simple answer is yes.

I'm not eligible for the various benefits they offer. If I pass away, members of my family do not become a war spouse or war dependants. No, it's straightforward. The difference is very clear, and as I said, everybody in the military knows the difference.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Could you explain in a little more detail the difference, in financial terms, between having taken part in a recognized war and having taken part in a war that is not recognized or, in the terms used, in a special service?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Because the veterans charter came into being in 2006, I can't directly compare. Unless the veterans charter was changed with its maximum monthly limitation, we could never approach the amount of money for the same injury that some veterans would have received if they were in Korea or, for that matter, even if they were injured in the example I gave you, which was Cyprus.

They can have a higher lifetime benefit. I'm at my highest maximum lifetime benefit. I know of other veterans who are getting more than $4,000 a month, and I'm sitting at $1,700 now. I am being told that I'm at the max, despite being determined to be 100% disabled—well, now 108% disabled.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you have the impression that, in the course of your missions, and in particular that of the Gulf War, you had to face the same kind of dangers as people who took part in the major, recognized wars?

[Bryan May, Liberal, Cambridge, ON]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair. I'm so sorry to interrupt.

There's some feedback on the online piece, and I noticed the interpreters are hearing it a little bit stronger than we are, so I'm wondering if we can check that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Exactly, but I don't know if there's something that the technicians can do. We knew from the beginning that it was not so good. Is it okay? Yes, they're working on it. Maybe we should continue, but I'm going to keep looking at the interpreters to see if we need to stop.

I'm sorry, Ms. Usherwood. I don't know if you would like MP Desilets to repeat the question, but please go ahead.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

Could the question be repeated, please?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'll do it with pleasure.

I was just asking you if you felt you faced the same risks, dangers and potential injuries during your participation in the Gulf War as your colleagues who took part in the other wars, which are recognized.

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

On the night of February 25 and into February 26, Saddam fired all his remaining Scud missiles. At the time the alert went off, and I had heard this many times. I was up to my bare hands—because we didn't have proper protective equipment at the time—in aircraft fuel, fixing a CF-18. For a moment, I was thinking, “Should I react? Should I just continue this job, which will allow me to put the panel back on and stop the fuel from leaking on the ground, or should I run for cover?”

In the end, I decided to run for cover. There was a nearby aircraft shelter that was hardened, so I did. Meanwhile, the fuel all leaked out. However, the Scud missile actually missed the location I was at. Some of us—not me but some of the others—went to look at the crater that it blasted. As best as I can remember, it was 20 feet across and about 15 feet deep. Even if I had been in the shelter and it had been hit, I still would have been gone. That same night, there was also another Scud launched at a warehouse that the Americans were using for a barracks. There were 28 people killed and over 100 injured.

Yes, I was exposed to the same danger as anybody else.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but isn't there also an ego wound? I understand that there are differences in salary and pension, among other things, but isn't there an ego wound related to the fact that the important work you've done hasn't been recognized at its fair value?

[Sgt Nina Charlene Usherwood]

I don't think the military recognized a lot of my service, to start with, throughout my career. I don't know if it was an injury to my.... I guess it wasn't to my ego so much, but for the many things that I did for the military, there was the lack of appreciation and the lack of ethical leadership that I experienced. I suffered a moral injury, which, again, VAC has accepted. VAC has given me a diagnosis of trauma.